Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

ExMIL is a professional dog trainer. She can make a neurotic sheepdog disco dance within ten minutes. But she can't bear her own dogs playing together as she equates dog noises as attacking behaviour, won't allow them to carry things in their mouths (they're retrievers) as it encourages biting and would never dream of telling a dog off as she is terrified of getting aggression in return. Mind you, she also refuses to have anything to do with Rotties and Staffies, following the old Daily Mail 'Devil Dog' theology.

I had a dog which was a 2 year old rescue mutt - prob more Pit Bull than anything else. After a few days of having my hands nipped when he wanted attention and following the expert's softly softly routine, I had enough, rolled him over, held him firmly and made it very clear to him that I was fed up and he wasn't to EVER use his teeth on anyone ever again. And no, it did not involve anything more violent than the actual getting him on the floor and he never showed any adverse reaction to the telling off for the rest of his life.

The only time he ever growled was when a strange man came to the door and was trying to talk his way inside. He sat in the front room and just growled long and low. The man left hurriedly and I heard later that there had been a spate of distraction robberies in the area.

But then I'm quite a bossy person and I expect to be in charge of animals. My attitude has pretty much always been 'I am your boss. I provide your food, your shelter and I adore you. Do not question this situation - I will not hurt you, I will love and protect you. But I am in charge. Me first, OH next, DD1 and DD2 after, animals next', so it is very possible that I was mirroring the methods he uses from instinct. As an infant I pretty much muddled along at the same level as the animals as a child of a fairly unpleasant chaotic family.

I think that electric collars are horrible and spiked collars barbaric, but where a dog has already been treated in such a way for years, I can see that someone saying 'take the collar off, it's cruel, let's be all nice and fluffy bunny now' is probably going to get a brutalised psychologically damaged dog becoming even more aggressive when it does not perceive any halt to its behaviour. A damaged dog really doesn't care if you are soft n gentle - it will perceive you as weak and inferior. Much like an adult who was violently abused as a child and is now committing violent offences themselves, they need an absolute halt to the bad behaviour, not just gentle encouragement for a little reward.

What does a purely reward based trainer do if the dog has its teeth in your daughter's arm? Offer it a doggy treat and a click? Shake a favourite toy? Or get the animal's jaws open and it as far away and subdued as possible?

Raksha

Inititially you look at management - ensure the dog doesn't get access to the child in a position to bite (muzzle, correctly introduced and fitted ofcourse). Then work on finding out why the dog behaves as it does - is it fear? Lack of socialisation? Lack of bite inhibition? This is what we rarely see CM do, and the result is his 'one size fits all' approach.

Start treating a dog who bites through fear with shock collars/rattle bottles or water sprays and you just make the problem worse.

lbt_2

Are these programmes still on? I have sky but I can't find them.

Thanks

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

I appreciate your reasoning in wishing to understand the causes of the behaviour, but first, I'd look at getting the dog's teeth out of the child, which is where the abrupt check to an action comes in.

Psychology can come after he is no longer making holes in flesh, whether it be a family dog or a random mutt wandering the streets.

Treating a traumatised dominant dog with the same techniques necessary for a frightened, anxious animal is just as much of a 'one size fits all' approach.

foreign_correspondent

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I appreciate your reasoning in wishing to understand the causes of the behaviour, but first, I'd look at getting the dog's teeth out of the child, which is where the abrupt check to an action comes in.

surely preventing the bite as Raksha outlines would be a better proposition? Leaving a new dog in a position where it could bite a child, or leaving a child and (any) dog alone is always a bad idea anyway.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Well, yes, obviously, but you don't stand around going 'oh dear, naughty boy, where's my clicker' when there's an animal biting someone, do you? You get the animal off and stop the attack, by whatever means is necessary at the time. That is what my point is. CM, for example, isn't there at the start when these useless baggages are screwing up their dog's minds - he's only there after the damage has already been done.

Ideally, no animal should be in the situation in the first place.

foreign_correspondent

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Well, yes, obviously, but you don't stand around going 'oh dear, naughty boy, where's my clicker' when there's an animal biting someone, do you? You get the animal off and stop the attack, by whatever means is necessary at the time.

Most dogs, if they bite, actually do so as a quick snap and then get away... if I had to actively 'get a dog off' a child I am not sure I would ever consider it to be safe around children or anyone else no matter how much ceaser milan rolls it around on the floor...

- and to be honest, I am not sure how relevant this is, as have never seen cm offer any advice on how to stop a dog attack in progress, as any methods are, by definition, high risk - and the situation is best pre-empted and avoided.

sacphil

Personally, I think CM and his methods are misunderstood by a lot of people. I'm at a loss to explain how a vast majority of people can build judgements based on what they see on a one hour programme covering 3 / 4 cases at a time. Or when broken down you often only see him with a dog for maybe fifteen minutes at a time. You don't not get to see what is edited out or what happens when the camera isn't 'rolling'.

Although everyone is entitled to their opinion on what is good or bad for a dog, what works for some dogs may not work for others......each dog is an individual.

The theory behind the method is that dogs are pack animals, and dogs are at their happiest when they do not feel that they have to be the pack leader. Hence CM trains PEOPLE to be pack leaders, as he frequently says in his show......he rehabilitates dogs.

I can speak from personal experience of his methods, as my wife and I travelled to see his UK ambassador for a couple of sessions earlier this year. Can I say at this point, we visited a reputed dog 'trainer' a few years back and paid £90 to be told that our beloved pet would never be able to socialise with other dogs because of his 'aggression' issues stemming from when he was attacked as a pup.

After a couple of visits to his ambassador we were well on the road to recovery with him and now he is the most placid dog going and regularly mixes with upwards of 10 dogs at a time at our local park.

To cut a long story short, the methods used were in NO WAY cruel. Yes, at times, they were stressful to the dog, but I would suggest that this is probably no more than (to quote an analogy used earlier) someone with arachnophobia being confronted by a spider. After the moment has passed we move on. I would certainly not put our beloved family pet in a situation that I deemed to be cruel or too distressing for them and, I imagine, most dog owners would feel the same.

Point in case, please do not judge methods that you see on the television on a fifteen minute 'glance'. These things can take days / weeks / months (even years in some cases) to pan out, with the intention of making the dog a happier animal. If people want to take issue with cruelty to animals they should look no further than the puppy farms and people breeding dogs for fighting that occurs in many cities throughout the UK. THIS is true cruelty.

orlao

Couldn't agree with you more Sacphil.

What I think a lot of people are saying on this thread is that too many people do try CMs method based only on the knowledge they aquire from the TV programs. That is when the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" becomes true.

While the whole "dog whisperer" thing is not something I personally rate I do think that everyone (and their dog!) has to find a way of training that suits them so they will implement it over the dogs lifetime rather than spend time flitting from one regime to another without ever resolving the underlying issues IYSWIM.

sacphil

Agreed!

There are too many different methods that are getting publicised these days and unfortunately people think that because it worked for someone on the TV that it will work for them. It's important to understand that what is seen on the television is merely a highlighted view and the people that are delivery the behaviourist / training techniques are professionals. Hence the warning that always state 'Do not attempt to recreate these techniques without consulting a professional'.

Best advice I could give is that if you are in doubt, then that is exactly what you should do, consult someone who knows about it