Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

trudiha

LittleTinker wrote: »

Where was there any kicking.....or even electric shock going on? I must have missed that bit.

If you've never see Cesar kick a dog then you've never watched an episode of his programme. If you've never watched his programme, I don't see why you are engaging is this discussion.

My point at leadership was directed at the other poster who said that dogs do not need leaders....yes they do. As do all animals. I didnt say cruelty WAS leadership. However, I didnt see any cruelty.

Cesar's idea of 'leadership' is a watered down version of the pack mentality research -with some hippy-dippy-ness added and the disproved science taken away. Your dog knows that you're not an alpha male; you don't smell like one, you don't have the body language of one, you can't even walk on four legs. However, you dog is still willing to do what you want because you provide either pleasant or unpleasant stimuli.

Its perception isnt it? You think the Grand national is cruel? Why? Because a horse MAY be injured? Because the horses are made to run by a whip?
The vast majority of people do not find that cruel.

Between 1997-2003, 30 horses died during the three day meet around the Grand National. These were healthy horse at the peak of their fitness, they died because of the way they were ridden and the design of the course. If what the majority of people think, rather than your own morality is the decided factor to you about what is and what isn't cruel, maybe the following will help:

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_horse/ALL/131/

Crufts is cruel too? Im a bit bemused by that.

Here's a link from the RSPCA, explaining why they are boycotting Crufts because it 'encourages the breeding of deformed and disabled dogs'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/16/animalwelfare

Tell me one TV programme of a similar nature (not a documentary highlighting animal cruelty of course) that shows people how to be cruel to their animals.

The methods used in Dog Borstal are also very dodgy, I can't think of another programme about dog training on the telly, can you?

Do you honestly believe that the RSPCA or American Humane Society are not going to cause a stink if the see blatant cruelty?

Because its down to perception.....and one persons views and opinions are not everyone's.

I don't think that you've looked at the links that other people have posted, the American Humane Society have put out statements about CM.

LittleTinker

trudiha wrote: »

If you've never see Cesar kick a dog then you've never watched an episode of his programme. If you've never watched his programme, I don't see why you are engaging is this discussion.

Cesar's idea of 'leadership' is a watered down version of the pack mentality research -with some hippy-dippy-ness added and the disproved science taken away. Your dog knows that you're not an alpha male; you don't smell like one, you don't have the body language of one, you can't even walk on four legs. However, you dog is still willing to do what you want because you provide either pleasant or unpleasant stimuli.

Between 1997-2003, 30 horses died during the three day meet around the Grand National. These were healthy horse at the peak of their fitness, they died because of the way they were ridden and the design of the course. If what the majority of people think, rather than your own morality is the decided factor to you about what is and what isn't cruel, maybe the following will help:

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_horse/ALL/131/

Here's a link from the RSPCA, explaining why they are boycotting Crufts because it 'encourages the breeding of deformed and disabled dogs'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/16/animalwelfare

The methods used in Dog Borstal are also very dodgy, I can't think of another programme about dog training on the telly, can you?

I don't think that you've looked at the links that other people have posted, the American Humane Society have put out statements about CM.

Im sorry, but you lose all credibility by saying that Crufts is cruel.

How can a dog show be cruel?

trudiha

Did you read the link?

Kerriebaby

Crufts in itself is not cruel, but some of the standards laid down by the KC, and how breeders are interpreting those standards, they are IMO ruining breeds, some dogs are unable to walk, breathe,whelp as dogs should, and in many others it is virtually impossible to find a healthy ( free from diseased lines ) specimen

LittleTinker

Kerriebaby wrote: »

Crufts in itself is not cruel, but some of the standards laid down by the KC, and how breeders are interpreting those standards, they are IMO ruining breeds, some dogs are unable to walk, breathe,whelp as dogs should, and in many others it is virtually impossible to find a healthy ( free from diseased lines ) specimen

Ahh here we go...someone speaking sense.

I agree. Crufts isnt cruel but the KC has some dodgy practises and they endorse crufts.

Kerriebaby

I love dogs, and I own a show dog ( Eilroy Starlight Flyer ) but I hate what some dogs have become. Im quite lucky in that I own a relatively healthy breed ( Rough Collie ) and in the 4 we have had, none have had a health problem.

The people I feel for are the fans of Bull dogs ( and EBT) pekes ckcs etc.

trudiha

LittleTinker wrote: »

I agree. Crufts isnt cruel but the KC has some dodgy practises and they endorse crufts.

The Kennel Club doesn't 'endorse' Crufts, they organise it.

(Incidentally, I'm impressed by the way you have managed to get the discussion away from CM.)

Kerriebaby

trudiha wrote: »

The Kennel Club doesn't 'endorse' Crufts, they organise it.

With the help of the KC run breed clubs

LittleTinker

trudiha wrote: »

The Kennel Club doesn't 'endorse' Crufts, they organise it.

(Incidentally, I'm impressed by the way you have managed to get the discussion away from CM.)

I havent taken the discussion away from CM. You brought Crufts into the discussion as a comparison. I had a counter to it, that is all.

ohwell

Ceaser doesnt kick dogs he simply uses touch to avert their attention.

Watch his episodes for an array of solutions depending on the situation.
look at the broader picture, please.