Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

CiciBaltimore

ceasar milan is a dog lover. why could anyone would think he is cruel i dont know. he loves dogs and works with dogs all the time. some people are strange if they think he is being cruel.

foreign_correspondent

I noted my observations about the CM clip posted on the last page - I have no axe to grind, but he is indeed taking that dog to the verge of asphyxia. I have explained fully the reasoning behind this observation. The dog does not get up immediately because it physically cannot, and, yes, I guess it will be likely to be submissive after a few episodes of that sort of treatment, but that does not mean it is ok, or wise.

If you want a human analogy, many people who live with violent abusers become very submissive, trying anything they can to 'keep the peace' and appease the abuser, whilst living in fear. However, this is an unhealthy dynamic, damging for the abused party, and of course, occasionaly the 'worm will turn' and attack the abuser.

CiciBaltimore

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I noted my observations about the CM clip posted on the last page - I have no axe to grind, but he is indeed taking that dog to the verge of asphyxia. I have explained fully the reasoning behind this observation. The dog does not get up immediately because it physically cannot, and, yes, I guess it will be likely to be submissive after a few episodes of that sort of treatment, but that does not mean it is ok, or wise.

If you want a human analogy, many people who live with violent abusers become very submissive, trying anything they can to 'keep the peace' and appease the abuser, whilst living in fear. However, this is an unhealthy dynamic, damging for the abused party, and of course, occasionaly the 'worm will turn' and attack the abuser.

he doesnt abuse the dogs. a genuine human comparison wouldnt be a human who is being violent would it because Caesar isnt being violent. how about a human who makes a naughty child sit on a naughty step, a naughty chair and they are not allowed to move,? that is more a real comparison. he is not choking the dog, he is not allowing the dog any room to move. it is the same as a strict parent who holds a child close and not let them move away. if you use comparisons, then the compsrisons must be equal and not so different as yours are here.

callywally

I find it very worrying that people think the way cm handles dogs is ok.
Anyone who has any knowledge of dogs, thier body language or the way they behave when under stress can see what is wrong with his methods.
shock collars, prong collars and the way he almost hangs dogs by slip leads, cutting off their air supply by having check chains right up at the top of the neck. What he calls touch ie kicking a dog, how do you tell from the tv how hard this touch is?
when the dog lays down and does nothing it is not in a calm submissive state it is in a state of learned helplessness. In other words it is so afraid it just shuts down and does nothing.
It is scarey how people see something on tv and think its the best and easy way to train dogs.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I really worry that people try to copy his methods on their own dogs.

foreign_correspondent

CiciBaltimore wrote: »

he is not choking the dog, he is not allowing the dog any room to move. it is the same as a strict parent who holds a child close and not let them move away. if you use comparisons, then the compsrisons must be equal and not so different as yours are here.

You can believe that if you like - but, from my experience and knowledge of physical restrictions and interventions, that dog is being starved of oxygen through CM applying pressure on the neck with a hand, and having a ligature tightened around the dogs neck.

Of course it is unable to get up immediately after the ligature is loosened and the pressure removed. I am not making value judgements here, just explaining what I observe.

If you think it is a safe thing to do I would have to queston your understanding of the causes and outcomes of ashphyxia.

UKTigerlily

If someone were choking me, i'd call it violent yes & it's all very well CM doing these things (Which I don't agree with) but he knows Dog body language & more than likely can tell when he's gonna get bitten & such, anyone else copying his methods could find themselves bitten or worse. I saw the one clip & the Dog was as FC says, unable to get up. If you were held down, wouldn't you immediately get up once let go? I know I would, UNLESS I was too scared or injured or exhausted to. I'm not a fan of him & would much rather see Dogs trained in a humane way & without fear.

callywally

I wouldnt say cm knows dogs body language. He wouldnt do some of the things he does or talk such rubbish if he did.
He says such things as calm submissive state etc when the dog is in truth to terrified to do any thing. He also uses check chains etc til the dog can not breathe.

Raksha

CiciBaltimore wrote: »

he doesnt abuse the dogs. a genuine human comparison wouldnt be a human who is being violent would it because Caesar isnt being violent. how about a human who makes a naughty child sit on a naughty step, a naughty chair and they are not allowed to move,? that is more a real comparison. he is not choking the dog, he is not allowing the dog any room to move. it is the same as a strict parent who holds a child close and not let them move away. if you use comparisons, then the compsrisons must be equal and not so different as yours are here.

There would be a better comparison if Ceaser made a dog sit and stay without any kind of lead/collar. Or if the human was holding the child by the neck.........

ixwood

I consider myself a animal lover and just can't see the petrified abused dog thing. I've (sadly) seen dogs that have been mistreated and you can instantly tell that they're scared of someone.

Cesars dogs NEVER act remotely scared of him. You can see they love him and DO consider him to be the pack leader.

orlao

My last words on this - promise:D

While I personally don't like his methods, there is no doubt that they may work IF used by people who understand his principles from beginning to end.

However, my real opposition to his programme is that these methods are downright dangerous and probably cruel to the dog if used by people who don't understand them (understanding IMHO is not gained by watching a TV series) and then decide to "have a go" usually with dogs that already have issues because of a lack of/bad training.