Are new cars really as bad as they say?

seatbeltnoob

daveyjp said:

Newer cars really are far better than what they were 40-50 years ago (points, carburettors anyone? Spark plug and valve gap to check regularly to ensure smooth running, WD40 and easy start in the boot), but I'm not sure the modern vehicle is far superior in reliability to those built 30 years ago.  

Lots of modern 'improvements' have caused me grief, in particular DSG gearbox, DPFs.  Now we have oil soaked belts disintegrating, adblue systems etc etc.  The nature of modern manufacturing with huge conglomerates such as Stallantis and VAG having the same components in lots of brands means a fault in one brand can affect many others.

What we do have now is the ability to consider which are the lemons very quickly, avoid brands within the conglomerates if there is an inherent fault, home in on brands which make reliable vehicles and offer good dealership experiences.  Both these are reasons why Toyota and Lexus top the ratings tables.

The thread has taken an anti-EV direction. that was not my intention. I was just asking for ICE cars 20 years ago and now. 

VW had reputation for being bulletproof back in early 2000s, my car is a testament to that. But I will not be buying VW now. The fuel efficiency requirement forced car markers to efficiency out of the drive train, running gear and engine. 

Piston riggs were loosened up to reduce friction on piston travel... which meant some of the wiuld burn through 1L of oil every 600 miles because the piston rings didnt have proper seal. I was eyeing up a touran as my next car, a model 140ps car which has a turbo charger AND supercharger to get a modest 140 bhp... two expensive parts that can fail unexpectedly making them unreliable as family cars. 

Toyota went the right way, keep building the same old tried and tested engine and gearbox, and to meet fuel efficiency requirement, just bolt on a small electric battery pack and motor and creep up the power a little bit so they can meet emissions/ 

WellKnownSid

seatbeltnoob said:

daveyjp said:

Newer cars really are far better than what they were 40-50 years ago (points, carburettors anyone? Spark plug and valve gap to check regularly to ensure smooth running, WD40 and easy start in the boot), but I'm not sure the modern vehicle is far superior in reliability to those built 30 years ago.  

Lots of modern 'improvements' have caused me grief, in particular DSG gearbox, DPFs.  Now we have oil soaked belts disintegrating, adblue systems etc etc.  The nature of modern manufacturing with huge conglomerates such as Stallantis and VAG having the same components in lots of brands means a fault in one brand can affect many others.

What we do have now is the ability to consider which are the lemons very quickly, avoid brands within the conglomerates if there is an inherent fault, home in on brands which make reliable vehicles and offer good dealership experiences.  Both these are reasons why Toyota and Lexus top the ratings tables.

The thread has taken an anti-EV direction. that was not my intention. I was just asking for ICE cars 20 years ago and now. 

VW had reputation for being bulletproof back in early 2000s, my car is a testament to that. But I will not be buying VW now. The fuel efficiency requirement forced car markers to efficiency out of the drive train, running gear and engine. 

Piston riggs were loosened up to reduce friction on piston travel... which meant some of the wiuld burn through 1L of oil every 600 miles because the piston rings didnt have proper seal. I was eyeing up a touran as my next car, a model 140ps car which has a turbo charger AND supercharger to get a modest 140 bhp... two expensive parts that can fail unexpectedly making them unreliable as family cars. 

Toyota went the right way, keep building the same old tried and tested engine and gearbox, and to meet fuel efficiency requirement, just bolt on a small electric battery pack and motor and creep up the power a little bit so they can meet emissions/ 

Toyota also use low tension rings - several generations of hybrids having a huge oil consumption problem due to them. Won’t be covered under Relax.

Use of thin walls from cylinder to water jackets - for faster warm ups - have plagued head gaskets where coolant hadn’t been religiously changed on time and turned acidic and etched through the tiny section.

Arunmor

born_again said:

Porsche, are not a run of the mill car manufacture, that the general public are buying on a daily basis (only in their dreams). You are looking at £60K for the cheapest. 
Which hardly fit's the EV marketplace with people moaning about paying £30K for a EV 

The average price for a new electric vehicle (EV) in the UK is around £50,000, though it can range from the low £20,000s for budget models to over £100,000 for luxury vehicles.

Getting pretty close!

WellKnownSid

Arunmor said:

born_again said:

Porsche, are not a run of the mill car manufacture, that the general public are buying on a daily basis (only in their dreams). You are looking at £60K for the cheapest. 
Which hardly fit's the EV marketplace with people moaning about paying £30K for a EV 

The average price for a new electric vehicle (EV) in the UK is around £50,000, though it can range from the low £20,000s for budget models to over £100,000 for luxury vehicles.

Getting pretty close!

Standard Gemini LLM response?  Come on now - you can do better! 

AI Summary: Electric vehicles (EVs) in the UK have a wide price range, with new models starting from around £21,000 after government grants and some luxury vehicles costing well over £100,000. The average cost of a new EV varies, with one source listing an average of £46,000, while others cite closer to £50,000 or over £54,000 for August 2024. 

These are all showing up as under £20,000 new on Carwow...  (If your budget is £20-30k you have 38 cars at your disposal from Skoda, Cupra, VW, MG, Renault, Nissan, Peugeot, Fiat, Jeep, Toyota)

Personally I'd avoid anything Stellantis because they have an awful reputation - but if you only want to buy brand new then the Hyundai Inster is a bit of a gem IMHO.

Dacia Spring £11,991
Hyundai Inster £16,848
Citroen e-C3 £18,282
BYD Dolphin Surf £17,574
Leapmotor T03 £14,192
Vauxhall Frontera Electric £19,916
Vauxhall Corsa Electric £19,860
Citroen e-C3 Aircross £19,833

facade

The Inster is top of my list for replacing mine, but once you decide you want things like the long range battery, rear camera and gangsta windows the price really shoots up!

They still use discs on the rear with a stupid electric handbrake, so you can factor in regular disc replacement as they never get used with regen and you can't tickle the handbrake to keep them clean.

I'd definitely test drive an Inster before buying, as in the reviews I've watched they seem very noisy at motorway speed, but that could be the microphone set-up that the youtuber uses.

henry24

Just looking online and the Inster must be a popular car as I can find 218 for sale some with nearly £7000 off brand new vehicles, obviously flying out the doors 

ididgetwhereiamtoday

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

born_again

facade said:

The Inster is top of my list for replacing mine, but once you decide you want things like the long range battery, rear camera and gangsta windows the price really shoots up!

They still use discs on the rear with a stupid electric handbrake, so you can factor in regular disc replacement as they never get used with regen and you can't tickle the handbrake to keep them clean.

I'd definitely test drive an Inster before buying, as in the reviews I've watched they seem very noisy at motorway speed, but that could be the microphone set-up that the youtuber uses.

A good stomp on the brakes once a week will be more than enough.
4 year old EV with EPB & rear disks/pads are still fine with above approach. Some new Kia's have a option to use physical brakes to clean disks (button press). Would expect Hyundai to be the same 👍

Given Inster is a city car, just like other small cars, they are more noisy on M/Ways.

henry24

This is another thing I don't understand with EVs owners say they don't need to use the brakes what happens if they rust solid and a child runs out and you can't stop 

seatbeltnoob

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.