Are new cars really as bad as they say?

seatbeltnoob

I drive a 23 year old VW golf, wife drives a 17 year old corsa. 

MOTs are getting a bit pricey for us, each year spend about £250-£300 getting it through the MOT. Other than than fairly reliable motoring, just bushes and ball joints and things are always going on these, there's probably some 30+ of them in each car so it's not surprise they need doing. 

Everyone seems to complain about new cars, i'm talk 2015 and newer, how they are economical on fuel and cheap to tax but things go wrong with them often. Parts that in older cars never go wrong, go wrong frequently on newer cars. 

People rate toyotas a lot for their reliability but then the reliability is priced into the vehicles as toyotas and lexus go for silly money these days. 

Are newer cars really as bad as they say? Or is it just nostalgia because older cars are built simpler, mechanics labour hours were cheaper and people just have rose tinted glasses looking at older cars? 

Peter999_2

Get an electric car if you want low maintenance costs - I've never had anything go wrong in either of the 2 electric cars I've had so far.   The batteries are far better than I though they would be - my 5 year old car has 92% battery (when it first came it was only 97%)

mebu60

We have a Ford Focus and a Ford Fiesta, second and third ones respectively, both current ones seven years old. They and their forebears have been extremely reliable (so far!). Sadly both models are being withdrawn. Will investigate Mazda 3 / CX30 in due course. Had Mazda 323s in the distant past, all fine. 

QrizB

Re. your question - no, they're not.

That's it. The answer. End of thread 😉

seatbeltnoob

Peter999_2 said:

Get an electric car if you want low maintenance costs - I've never had anything go wrong in either of the 2 electric cars I've had so far.   The batteries are far better than I though they would be - my 5 year old car has 92% battery (when it first came it was only 97%)

just like phone batteries, from brand new they are 99-98% good, and then they are end of life at 85% good. 85% good does not mean it has 85% of the range it did, at 85% good it has half the life of a 99/98% battery. 

EVs depreciate hard, nobody wants a used EV because the battery on a used ev is like playing the lottery. 85% good basically means you probably need to change it for a new one at £10-£15K 

Electric cars also have suspension bushes, brakes, suspensions, anti roll but, wishbones etc. Those are wear items. 

"yeah get a brand new EV" to someone who drives 23 year old car sounds like badly thought out advice. 

henry24

seatbleltnoob  I couldn't agree with you more but your going to upset a lot of people who have bought a EV with your truthful comments 

Keep_pedalling

seatbeltnoob said:

Peter999_2 said:

Get an electric car if you want low maintenance costs - I've never had anything go wrong in either of the 2 electric cars I've had so far.   The batteries are far better than I though they would be - my 5 year old car has 92% battery (when it first came it was only 97%)

just like phone batteries, from brand new they are 99-98% good, and then they are end of life at 85% good. 85% good does not mean it has 85% of the range it did, at 85% good it has half the life of a 99/98% battery. 

EVs depreciate hard, nobody wants a used EV because the battery on a used ev is like playing the lottery. 85% good basically means you probably need to change it for a new one at £10-£15K 

Electric cars also have suspension bushes, brakes, suspensions, anti roll but, wishbones etc. Those are wear items. 

"yeah get a brand new EV" to someone who drives 23 year old car sounds like badly thought out advice. 

The facts are that EVs are more than capable of doing 100k miles plus on their original batteries. There are quite a few that have done 200k plus. Even the original Nisan Leafs which had no thermal management on the batteries were capable of doing 100k plus. The percentage of EV owners who have needed new battery is probably lower than ICE cars that have needed new engines.

While I agree that for the OP a new EV is not a realistic option, there are some very good used EV bargains out there. 

vacheron

Despite working in the tech and transport industry, I have no faith whatsoever in the way new cars are going.

• Non-tactile touchpads everywhere, 3 clicks or sometimes more on a screen which requires you to take your eyes off the road for the most basic functions.

• Battery packs which will eventually need replacing at a cost of thousands, or even tens of thousands of pounds.
  
  
• "Coded" parts and modules everywhere, forcing you to use main dealers to access the necessary diagnostic equipment, all at their over inflated "main stealer" prices.

• Custom built and shaped digital dashboard screens and numerous embedded controllers, which when they fail 8-10 years down the line, and aren't being manufactured anymore, will basically consign your entire car to e-waste!

• Interior, mechanical and exterior build quality has fallen to make room for the software functions and batteries, yet they are still more expensive. 

I drive new cars regularly for work. and there is no way I want to buy one for myself.
Lease, perhaps, but personally leases aren't for me.

I buy cars 1-2 years old and keep them for at least 7-8 years. I have no desire whatsoever to purchase one with my own money which I have the responsibility to service and maintain for many years to come! 

As an aside, my mum took her 9 year Honda Civic to the our local main Honda dealer this week for a service and MOT(who she has a long relationship with as a repeated customer with 3-4 cars bought through them). 

During her visit chatting with the staff, she was categorically told to hold on to her car for as long as possible as as the new cars are not a patch on the cars from her era, by both the branch sales manager and the workshop manager! This sounds conveniently coincidental, but I swear 100% this is true! 

I think that says it all.

QrizB

seatbeltnoob said:

just like phone batteries, from brand new they are 99-98% good, and then they are end of life at 85% good. 85% good does not mean it has 85% of the range it did, at 85% good it has half the life of a 99/98% battery. 

That's simply not true.

seatbeltnoob said:

EVs depreciate hard, nobody wants a used EV because the battery on a used ev is like playing the lottery. 85% good basically means you probably need to change it for a new one at £10-£15K 

That's not true either.

seatbeltnoob said:

"yeah get a brand new EV" to someone who drives 23 year old car sounds like badly thought out advice. 

That's a straw man arguent in bad faith. No-one has suggested that you buy a brand-new EV.

WellKnownSid

I have owned over 20 different cars - new cars, old cars, and somewhere in the middle cars.  Currently I have a 2 year old hybrid, 3 year old electric, 16 year old diesel and a 37 year old I6 petrol.

I have only ever broken down twice* - both times have been in new cars.  First time was in 1990, rolling off the forecourt with a brand new Vauxhall (3 miles on the clock - distributor).  Second time was in 2014 in a six month old diesel Peugeot (oil pump failure).

The biggest leap forward has been the computer.  Modern cars are full of them which puts detailed diagnosis in the hands of anyone.  We recently bought our diesel Kuga "station/tip car" (low mileage, Titanium spec with leather, climate and pan roof) for £450 from a trader as a non-runner (they'd tried three "experts" but they couldn't fix it).  Once they'd dropped it off on the recovery truck I plugged in the Launch Pro and got to work - gave my son a list of parts to remove and cracked open the soldering iron.  Was up and running within three hours of its wheels landing on the drive - albeit it took another week to 'undo' all the "fiddling" and put the huge pile of trim pieces on the back seats back into the right place .  Just taken it for an MoT - no advisories. 

EVs make it even easier - no lottery - every EV ever made can be scanned and will tell you exactly how many charges it's had, what types of charges it's had, complete state of health including cell balance data, exactly how much abuse it's had.  A little secret that no dealer will want to admit but laws are coming in to force in the rest of Europe that will force them to give consumers this information.

*technically I have broken down more times - but the other times were unforced due to my own stupidity...

WellKnownSid

vacheron said:

• Custom built and shaped digital dashboard screens and numerous embedded controllers, which when they fail 8-10 years down the line, and aren't being manufactured anymore, will basically consign your entire car to e-waste!

The vast majority of which can be fixed with some basic component-level repair, much of it DIY-able on the kitchen table if you have SMD soldering skills.  It also bypasses the 'coding' issue you mention - because you'll be putting the original part back into the car.