Are new cars really as bad as they say?

WellKnownSid

Car_54 said:

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

just made up anything to suit your narrative. A business lease is to a company, a personal lease is to an individual. vast majority of individuals buy used, very few are buying brand new. those people driving brand new cars are likely to be company cars. 

131,003 individuals bought a new car last month.
7,552 cars were bought by businesses
174,336 were fleet

Fleet means it's gone to a fleet (over 50 vehicles - no V5C generated, bulk handling of things like road tax).  This could mean a leasing company leasing to a private individual or business, daily rental such as Hertz, large corporates, government bodies, and yes pre-registrations which magically never leave the dealership.

On the two occasions I've bought pre-reg, they were registered to individuals. Presumably dealer staff/owners.

Short term right to reject 😏

born_again

seatbeltnoob said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

just made up anything to suit your narrative. A business lease is to a company, a personal lease is to an individual. vast majority of individuals buy used, very few are buying brand new. those people driving brand new cars are likely to be company cars. 

Not making anything up here. Think about who pays for & owns the car.

When you take out a lease or PCP deal. Who owns the car? Think on that..

Grumpy_chap

born_again said:

When you take out a lease or PCP deal. Who owns the car?

I understand the two are different.  As I understand it:

If an individual takes out a lease (or PCH), then the car is owned by Leaseco Ltd.  The individual is simply paying a monthly amount to have the use of the car for that period after which the car goes back to Leaseco Ltd.

If an individual takes out a PCP, the individual is buying the car and the PCP is nothing more than the finance vehicle, with a substantial deferred payment thus reducing the monthly cost but increasing the total cost of acquisition.  The owner of the car is no different than the individual having paid cash or taking more traditional finance.

Car_54

Grumpy_chap said:

born_again said:

When you take out a lease or PCP deal. Who owns the car?

If an individual takes out a PCP, the individual is buying the car and the PCP is nothing more than the finance vehicle, with a substantial deferred payment thus reducing the monthly cost but increasing the total cost of acquisition.  The owner of the car is no different than the individual having paid cash or taking more traditional finance.

No. PCP is a variety of Hire Purchase, and the clue is in the word Hire. Ownership remains with the finance company until the final payment is made

Goudy

Grumpy_chap said:

born_again said:

When you take out a lease or PCP deal. Who owns the car?

I understand the two are different.  As I understand it:

If an individual takes out a lease (or PCH), then the car is owned by Leaseco Ltd.  The individual is simply paying a monthly amount to have the use of the car for that period after which the car goes back to Leaseco Ltd.

If an individual takes out a PCP, the individual is buying the car and the PCP is nothing more than the finance vehicle, with a substantial deferred payment thus reducing the monthly cost but increasing the total cost of acquisition.  The owner of the car is no different than the individual having paid cash or taking more traditional finance.

Not as far as Mercedes Benz are concerned.

A PCP can be both. A PCP (individual buying a car) or a lease (PCH).

Mercedes Benz financial services took the HMRC to the CJEU about the treatment of VAT on their PCP product.
VAT on Goods (a new car) is payable up front.
VAT on Services (a lease car) is payable on the monthly charges.

MBFS litigated that a PCP was a lease and won (sort of).

HMRC have had to change their standing on PCP contracts.
They are now either Goods (individual buying the car) or Services (a lease) depending on the GFV calculation.
(in simple terms, if the GFV is set so high no !!!!!! will ever pay it, it's a lease)

Grumpy_chap

Car_54 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

born_again said:

When you take out a lease or PCP deal. Who owns the car?

If an individual takes out a PCP, the individual is buying the car and the PCP is nothing more than the finance vehicle, with a substantial deferred payment thus reducing the monthly cost but increasing the total cost of acquisition.  The owner of the car is no different than the individual having paid cash or taking more traditional finance.

No. PCP is a variety of Hire Purchase, and the clue is in the word Hire. Ownership remains with the finance company until the final payment is made

I still understand that a PCP vehicle is registered to the individual and recorded as an individual sale, not fleet / business.
The lease, however, is registered as a business sale.
Registration and ownership can be two different things.

How would someone with a car on PCP answer the question for insurance about ownership?

WellKnownSid

Regardless of method of finance...

A car registered to a private individual is logged as a private sale
A car registered to a company is logged as a business sale
A car registered to a DVLA registered fleet customer is logged as fleet.

Some dealers pre-register their cars to staff / the sales manager's wife / the dealer principal's au pair / etc - but that obviously is limited.  It's certainly a practice going as far back as the 1970's because I remember a friend at school whose Mum and Dad got new cars every six months because of it!