Are new cars really as bad as they say?

henry24

Well put Goudy I've nothing against EVs but like many I don't want one and I don't want to be forced into buying one. If they are as good as people say then let them sell on their own merit and not though subsidy

Exodi

seatbeltnoob said:

paul_c123 said:

I strongly believe it was the transporter which caught fire initially, but then because it was carrying EVs, these caught fire and are more problematic to put out.

on what basis?

I find it bizarre that you've deliberately truncated his explanation and then asked him to explain himself. The original comment hasn't been edited.

The full comment:

paul_c123 said:

I strongly believe it was the transporter which caught fire initially, but then because it was carrying EVs, these caught fire and are more problematic to put out.

Thinking more deeply about it (and with the well established science of the fire triangle) I think its extremely unlikely an EV would catch fire unless it was either being charged or running at the time (energy source actively converting energy and producing some heat in the process). So they're pretty safe on a car transporter.

Obviously a petrol or diesel vehicle has plenty of heat generated and managed during running and for some significant time period afterwards, and a few different fuel sources (fuel, oil, electrical insulation, plastic trim/body panels etc) so are much more likely to catch fire in the first place, if an ignition source was to occur outside the engine.

Regarding EV fires on transporter ships, the issue is the battery self-oxygenates, so if its breached with sufficient heat, the traditional method of CO2 quenching in a confined space (which is how large ships normally deal with onboard fires in confined areas) is not possible.

WellKnownSid

henry24 said:

Well put Goudy I've nothing against EVs but like many I don't want one and I don't want to be forced into buying one. If they are as good as people say then let them sell on their own merit and not though subsidy

That is fine.  Petrol hybrids will be available to buy new right up to 2035 which means you'll have a selection of petrol cars to drive around in for at least the next 30 years.  You sound like an enthusiast so you'll likely be able to parallel import new ICE cars from places like Japan for even longer - say 2045 - and if you're handy with the rust-proofing and a set of spanners you may be able to keep them on the road in daily use until 2085 - so sixty years at a stretch.  It's hardly forced.

Renault's EV sales are up 887% (Autocar, July 2025) thanks to the 5 - which highlights the big problem for most car makers - they need to produce cars (not just EVs) that people actually want to own and drive.  We'll have to see how cars like the Puma-E fair.

Diesels have been subsidised for years - and still are.  

Goudy

WellKnownSid said:

henry24 said:

Well put Goudy I've nothing against EVs but like many I don't want one and I don't want to be forced into buying one. If they are as good as people say then let them sell on their own merit and not though subsidy

That is fine.  Petrol hybrids will be available to buy new right up to 2035 which means you'll have a selection of petrol cars to drive around in for at least the next 30 years.  You sound like an enthusiast so you'll likely be able to parallel import new ICE cars from places like Japan for even longer - say 2045 - and if you're handy with the rust-proofing and a set of spanners you may be able to keep them on the road in daily use until 2085 - so sixty years at a stretch.  It's hardly forced.

Just going on sales dates, this all might be true but there are other elements of driving that can be used to encourage or discourage sales and ownership of certain types of vehicles. To be fair, they've been doing this for years already.

For instance, my local council already has tiered parking fees for their on street parking based on emissions and we already have chargeable zones based on vehicle emissions.

As the move to zero emissions creep ever forward, so will the criteria for these types of schemes creep.
Yes I may pay a flat fee or no fee to use a euro 6 or hybrid vehicle now or even get a discount for emission zone or parking, but it's almost certain that won't be case for long.

Once one is killed off they will move to the next in line and so on.

We have at the moment VED rates for EV's catching up with ICE, but who's to say VED rates for ICE's will stay the same or fuel duty won't increase.

I suspect a big one will be road pricing.
I suspect it will eventual be Where, When and What based.
Then they will have three axis to define how much everyone pays.

henry24

WellKnownSid said:

henry24 said:

Well put Goudy I've nothing against EVs but like many I don't want one and I don't want to be forced into buying one. If they are as good as people say then let them sell on their own merit and not though subsidy

That is fine.  Petrol hybrids will be available to buy new right up to 2035 which means you'll have a selection of petrol cars to drive around in for at least the next 30 years.  You sound like an enthusiast so you'll likely be able to parallel import new ICE cars from places like Japan for even longer - say 2045 - and if you're handy with the rust-proofing and a set of spanners you may be able to keep them on the road in daily use until 2085 - so sixty years at a stretch.  It's hardly forced.

Renault's EV sales are up 887% (Autocar, July 2025) thanks to the 5 - which highlights the big problem for most car makers - they need to produce cars (not just EVs) that people actually want to own and drive.  We'll have to see how cars like the Puma-E fair.

Diesels have been subsidised for years - and still are.  

Renault sales up 887% from how many to how many what's the figures. You say about the Renault 5 selling so well but on one website they have 141 Renault EV 5s some with nearly £2000 off new price so they aren't flying out the door 
What subsidy would I get buying a new diesel?

Herzlos

Arunmor said:

Herzlos said:

Arunmor said:

Well looks like the manufacturers in Europe and Japan would disagree with you.  There is a huge amount of smoke and mirrors going on in EV sales.

As for implying 7 cars spontaneously combusted is nonsense, most likely scenario is 1 did.  I very much doubt the transporter was engulfed or a hidden Range Rover diesel!

Can you post links rather than screenshots so we can read the details?

I've given you all the information you need to search; source, date and headline.  Most people won't bother clicking links.

Fair enough. I don't have the energy to search for them, and given how heavily biased your first 2 statements are I don't think it's worth it. 

Grumpy_chap

Arunmor said:

There is a huge amount of smoke and mirrors going on in EV sales.

henry24 said:

You say about the Renault 5 selling so well but on one website they have 141 Renault EV 5s some with nearly £2000 off new price so they aren't flying out the door 

Hasn't there always been a lot of smoke & mirrors around new car sales and registrations, with various forms or pre-reg / grey new cars always available in one way or another?
I don't see this as an EV-specific factor.

henry24

But when someone says about Renault EV sales going up 887% as though it's a good thing but  won't provide figures it could be 1 sale and now 8 
And you've still not said what subsidy I can get on a new diesel 

henry24

I've just looked at Renault megane brand new with £7500 off I can even find a 2 year old one with 85 miles that's not good for such popular cars 

Herzlos

Grumpy_chap said:

Arunmor said:

There is a huge amount of smoke and mirrors going on in EV sales.

henry24 said:

You say about the Renault 5 selling so well but on one website they have 141 Renault EV 5s some with nearly £2000 off new price so they aren't flying out the door 

Hasn't there always been a lot of smoke & mirrors around new car sales and registrations, with various forms or pre-reg / grey new cars always available in one way or another?
I don't see this as an EV-specific factor.

Yeah there's always been some fudging of sales figures as dealers get incentives based on registrations and so on. 

The Renault 5 is pretty new so the huge increase will have be been from a tiny number since it only came out in January 2025. The 2024's will be prototypes/demos.