Are new cars really as bad as they say?

silverwhistle

seatbeltnoob said:

The thread has taken an anti-EV direction. that was not my intention. I was just asking for ICE cars 20 years ago and now. 

You could have fooled me..

silverwhistle

I would add though that some of the issues such as the reliance of touch screens are common to both ICE and EVs.

As for the rest of this thread, apart from a few people who know what they are talking about, it's been a mine of misinformation.

Incidentally, the Norwegian ferry company who were quoted above as not allowing EVs on their ships will be carrying hardly any in a few years given that the percentage of EV sales this year has reached 97% this month in Norway.

seatbeltnoob

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.

Yep, seen very similar myself.

AA man with a van standing around scratching his head.  "The trouble with these cars", he said, "is that they'll always have to go back to the main dealer".

Eventually a flat-bed truck turned up and the car was whisked away.

Car in question was a two day old Rover 214GSi - the K-series engine with single-point "electronic" fuel injection.

It was the Summer of 1990.

Time moves on.  Technicians re-skill.

Well we're talking about the cars we have today. We shouldnt be making buying decisions on EVs today based on EVs might become 2050. 

In 2050 Evs might all share similar interchanable battery packs, and motor technology. All using similarly produced parts all using similar wiring so it's easy for technicans to work across brands. 

As it stands, it's not like that. 

In 2025. A failure in an EV car requires it to be sent back to main dealer and nobody else can work on them.

What was the solution in 1990 to solve the rover "back to main dealer" problem? It was avoid rover and buy german. 

Maybe apply the 1990 solution today...  

This just isn’t true. There are plenty of independent repairers for EVs. I took my Tesla to a Tesla independent specialist in Reading. There’s Cleverly who actually travel to you to carry out repairs on EVs where possible, and does component level repairs at their workshop for all the parts. Then there is chap called Gary I know who largely carries out motor repairs for Renault Zoe’s, but also all EVs. These are just three I happen to know of. 

There’s HEVRA that enables you to search for EV/hybrid specialist garages across the UK. 

Your misinformation on EVs throughout this thread is staggering…they don’t always set on fire, hardly ever. They don’t need new batteries in 7-10yrs…they don’t always have to go back to dealers for repairs. 

Please stop spreading blatant misinformation. 

Ev repair is a cottage industry, most people will be lucky to live 100 miles near an indie who can work on EVs.

The so called independant tesla specialist. Can they fix anything else other than tesla? Do they have to enrol into teslas repairer program to be certified and have access to the tesla diagnostics software?

Rich rebuilds, built his tesla. But it's unauthorised repair and tesla won't even sell him a second key because the car is blacklisted. All the features that require a callback to server are disabled. I believe he had to disable the callback altogether so the car won't get remotely shut down.

So this nonsense "indie repair" is garbage. They're not ibdependant, they work through tesla approval 

No, 'most people' are not lucky to be within 100 miles of an indie that can work on EVs. Did you even check the HEVRA website? There are hundreds of approved EV repairers across the UK, and those like Cleverly will travel to you if beyond a certain mileage from their workshop. Stop Spreading Misinformation!

They are an independent Tesla specialist. In fact they were a Ford specialist before hand. As with Cleverly, they can carry out major repairs on electrical components, including Teslas. You can keep saying black is white, but it doesn't make it true....

Honestly, why do you keep making these bold statements that are clearly false when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about? It's incredibly unhelpful to other forum users looking for factual information.

Lol why are you not commenting on rich rebuilds, how tesla blacklisted his car because it wasnt an "approved" repair.

The fact that you keep mentioning cleverly by one name says a lot about the "vast swathes of ev repairers".

Moat ev advocates are like you, until they have a serious defect with their EV and then they stop buying them.

DrEskimo

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.

Yep, seen very similar myself.

AA man with a van standing around scratching his head.  "The trouble with these cars", he said, "is that they'll always have to go back to the main dealer".

Eventually a flat-bed truck turned up and the car was whisked away.

Car in question was a two day old Rover 214GSi - the K-series engine with single-point "electronic" fuel injection.

It was the Summer of 1990.

Time moves on.  Technicians re-skill.

Well we're talking about the cars we have today. We shouldnt be making buying decisions on EVs today based on EVs might become 2050. 

In 2050 Evs might all share similar interchanable battery packs, and motor technology. All using similarly produced parts all using similar wiring so it's easy for technicans to work across brands. 

As it stands, it's not like that. 

In 2025. A failure in an EV car requires it to be sent back to main dealer and nobody else can work on them.

What was the solution in 1990 to solve the rover "back to main dealer" problem? It was avoid rover and buy german. 

Maybe apply the 1990 solution today...  

This just isn’t true. There are plenty of independent repairers for EVs. I took my Tesla to a Tesla independent specialist in Reading. There’s Cleverly who actually travel to you to carry out repairs on EVs where possible, and does component level repairs at their workshop for all the parts. Then there is chap called Gary I know who largely carries out motor repairs for Renault Zoe’s, but also all EVs. These are just three I happen to know of. 

There’s HEVRA that enables you to search for EV/hybrid specialist garages across the UK. 

Your misinformation on EVs throughout this thread is staggering…they don’t always set on fire, hardly ever. They don’t need new batteries in 7-10yrs…they don’t always have to go back to dealers for repairs. 

Please stop spreading blatant misinformation. 

Ev repair is a cottage industry, most people will be lucky to live 100 miles near an indie who can work on EVs.

The so called independant tesla specialist. Can they fix anything else other than tesla? Do they have to enrol into teslas repairer program to be certified and have access to the tesla diagnostics software?

Rich rebuilds, built his tesla. But it's unauthorised repair and tesla won't even sell him a second key because the car is blacklisted. All the features that require a callback to server are disabled. I believe he had to disable the callback altogether so the car won't get remotely shut down.

So this nonsense "indie repair" is garbage. They're not ibdependant, they work through tesla approval 

No, 'most people' are not lucky to be within 100 miles of an indie that can work on EVs. Did you even check the HEVRA website? There are hundreds of approved EV repairers across the UK, and those like Cleverly will travel to you if beyond a certain mileage from their workshop. Stop Spreading Misinformation!

They are an independent Tesla specialist. In fact they were a Ford specialist before hand. As with Cleverly, they can carry out major repairs on electrical components, including Teslas. You can keep saying black is white, but it doesn't make it true....

Honestly, why do you keep making these bold statements that are clearly false when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about? It's incredibly unhelpful to other forum users looking for factual information.

Lol why are you not commenting on rich rebuilds, how tesla blacklisted his car because it wasnt an "approved" repair.

The fact that you keep mentioning cleverly by one name says a lot about the "vast swathes of ev repairers".

Moat ev advocates are like you, until they have a serious defect with their EV and then they stop buying them.

I can’t comment on unreferenced incidence from a YouTuber based in the US….I’m telling you these independent garages have carried out extensive repairs on Tesla’s and I’ve not seen any reports of owners having their cars blacklisted. 

I just mention them as they have a unique business model where they travel to you. It completely negates your comment about ‘most people being 100miles away from one’. I’ve not even used them. I’ve used others around me though. 

I did have a major defect on my last EV. I repaired it and I then bought another one. Same way I had a major defect on one of my ICE cars some years ago. I repaired it and then bought another one….

Herzlos

henry24 said:

So the electric motor will stop it dead 

Are you missing the distinction between engine braking the physical braking?

An EV still has brakes that work when you hit the pedal, and will stop just as quickly as any other car. 

But what they also do is use regenerative braking; where the energy goes back into the motor so that when you're slowing down gradually (because you're leaving a suitable distance to the car in front) you both recharge the battery and don't wear the brakes. This regenerative breaking is so good that you can go a surprisingly long time without actually engaging the mechanical brakes, hence the problem being mentioned here that rust can build up due to lack of use. They'll still stop in an emergency though but will be noisy.

So it's an improved version of engine braking without the waste. Counter-intuitively it also means that EV's get better economy in stop-start traffic than on the open road. 

WellKnownSid

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.

Yep, seen very similar myself.

AA man with a van standing around scratching his head.  "The trouble with these cars", he said, "is that they'll always have to go back to the main dealer".

Eventually a flat-bed truck turned up and the car was whisked away.

Car in question was a two day old Rover 214GSi - the K-series engine with single-point "electronic" fuel injection.

It was the Summer of 1990.

Time moves on.  Technicians re-skill.

Well we're talking about the cars we have today. We shouldnt be making buying decisions on EVs today based on EVs might become 2050. 

In 2050 Evs might all share similar interchanable battery packs, and motor technology. All using similarly produced parts all using similar wiring so it's easy for technicans to work across brands. 

As it stands, it's not like that. 

In 2025. A failure in an EV car requires it to be sent back to main dealer and nobody else can work on them.

What was the solution in 1990 to solve the rover "back to main dealer" problem? It was avoid rover and buy german. 

Maybe apply the 1990 solution today...  

This just isn’t true. There are plenty of independent repairers for EVs. I took my Tesla to a Tesla independent specialist in Reading. There’s Cleverly who actually travel to you to carry out repairs on EVs where possible, and does component level repairs at their workshop for all the parts. Then there is chap called Gary I know who largely carries out motor repairs for Renault Zoe’s, but also all EVs. These are just three I happen to know of. 

There’s HEVRA that enables you to search for EV/hybrid specialist garages across the UK. 

Your misinformation on EVs throughout this thread is staggering…they don’t always set on fire, hardly ever. They don’t need new batteries in 7-10yrs…they don’t always have to go back to dealers for repairs. 

Please stop spreading blatant misinformation. 

Ev repair is a cottage industry, most people will be lucky to live 100 miles near an indie who can work on EVs.

The so called independant tesla specialist. Can they fix anything else other than tesla? Do they have to enrol into teslas repairer program to be certified and have access to the tesla diagnostics software?

Rich rebuilds, built his tesla. But it's unauthorised repair and tesla won't even sell him a second key because the car is blacklisted. All the features that require a callback to server are disabled. I believe he had to disable the callback altogether so the car won't get remotely shut down.

So this nonsense "indie repair" is garbage. They're not ibdependant, they work through tesla approval 

No, 'most people' are not lucky to be within 100 miles of an indie that can work on EVs. Did you even check the HEVRA website? There are hundreds of approved EV repairers across the UK, and those like Cleverly will travel to you if beyond a certain mileage from their workshop. Stop Spreading Misinformation!

They are an independent Tesla specialist. In fact they were a Ford specialist before hand. As with Cleverly, they can carry out major repairs on electrical components, including Teslas. You can keep saying black is white, but it doesn't make it true....

Honestly, why do you keep making these bold statements that are clearly false when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about? It's incredibly unhelpful to other forum users looking for factual information.

Lol why are you not commenting on rich rebuilds, how tesla blacklisted his car because it wasnt an "approved" repair.

The fact that you keep mentioning cleverly by one name says a lot about the "vast swathes of ev repairers".

Moat ev advocates are like you, until they have a serious defect with their EV and then they stop buying them.

On the Tesla thing, I don't believe many people on here buy and rebuild flood-damaged cars so the blacklisting thing is probably irrelevant.  Didn't Rich also stick a V8 into one of his Teslas?  Again, I don't think this is the forum for that.

There are 43,000 workshops in the UK which is around 1 for every 790 cars on the road.

There are 1.7m EVs on UK roads - around 600,000 EVs out of manufacturer's warranty right now - so if you are right that there is only one repairer instead of the 2,200 that ICE vehicles would require - surely that strongly suggests EVs are 2,200x more reliable that ICE vehicles?

Personally I don't believe that figure - I think it's far more likely:

• That most things that go wrong with EVs are the same wear and tear items that go wrong in all cars, e.g. drop links - repairably at any corner garage.
• The servicing requirements are much less (a cabin filter).  They don't blow up if the oil or cam belt isn't changed.
• When things go really wrong they are still repairable by the handful of specialists, and that "cottage industry" as you referred to is is probably right-sized for the number of vehicles out of warranty on the road right now.
• If you buy a flood-damaged or accident-damaged Tesla, then you're on your own

born_again

seatbeltnoob said:

DrEskimo said:

seatbeltnoob said:

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.

Yep, seen very similar myself.

AA man with a van standing around scratching his head.  "The trouble with these cars", he said, "is that they'll always have to go back to the main dealer".

Eventually a flat-bed truck turned up and the car was whisked away.

Car in question was a two day old Rover 214GSi - the K-series engine with single-point "electronic" fuel injection.

It was the Summer of 1990.

Time moves on.  Technicians re-skill.

Well we're talking about the cars we have today. We shouldnt be making buying decisions on EVs today based on EVs might become 2050. 

In 2050 Evs might all share similar interchanable battery packs, and motor technology. All using similarly produced parts all using similar wiring so it's easy for technicans to work across brands. 

As it stands, it's not like that. 

In 2025. A failure in an EV car requires it to be sent back to main dealer and nobody else can work on them.

What was the solution in 1990 to solve the rover "back to main dealer" problem? It was avoid rover and buy german. 

Maybe apply the 1990 solution today...  

This just isn’t true. There are plenty of independent repairers for EVs. I took my Tesla to a Tesla independent specialist in Reading. There’s Cleverly who actually travel to you to carry out repairs on EVs where possible, and does component level repairs at their workshop for all the parts. Then there is chap called Gary I know who largely carries out motor repairs for Renault Zoe’s, but also all EVs. These are just three I happen to know of. 

There’s HEVRA that enables you to search for EV/hybrid specialist garages across the UK. 

Your misinformation on EVs throughout this thread is staggering…they don’t always set on fire, hardly ever. They don’t need new batteries in 7-10yrs…they don’t always have to go back to dealers for repairs. 

Please stop spreading blatant misinformation. 

Ev repair is a cottage industry, most people will be lucky to live 100 miles near an indie who can work on EVs.

The so called independant tesla specialist. Can they fix anything else other than tesla? Do they have to enrol into teslas repairer program to be certified and have access to the tesla diagnostics software?

Rich rebuilds, built his tesla. But it's unauthorised repair and tesla won't even sell him a second key because the car is blacklisted. All the features that require a callback to server are disabled. I believe he had to disable the callback altogether so the car won't get remotely shut down.

So this nonsense "indie repair" is garbage. They're not ibdependant, they work through tesla approval 

This is just the same as when electronic ignition came in & ECU's cited as the death knell of the independent garages..
They either move with the time or die like any other industry.

Any garage can work on a EV. If they want. 

Cottage industry 🤣
Big companies are fully engaged in EV repairs in Europe.. Just the UK seems to be stuck in the ICE age. Expect the same result in a few years. Dino goes extinct 😶‍🌫️

born_again

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

seatbeltnoob said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Significant Battery life degradation is not a thing. The rest of the car will fall apart first and you will still have a usable battery That will still be worth some money when you come to scrap it. 

By the time the car is out of warranty at 8 years old, it won’t be worth much anyway so the perceived risk is negligible. 

I reckon EVs will outlast ICE cars. We will be seeing plenty of Niros and ID3s running around at 20 years old. 

just watched a neigbours niro get collected by a flatbed transporter not long ago. wont start.

any issues like no start. an indie mobile mechanic cant come out to fix it. it has to go back to main dealer on a transporter to do their propriety diagnostics and fix.

Case dismissed!

Odds on flat 12V.
Poor diagnostics by someone who can't be bothered, to upgrade their skills. 🤣

Arunmor

If EVs are in such demand why are many companies rolling back in EV plans?  The main reason despite the evangelists protestations is lack of consumer demand.  The only demand driver is from businesses who are subsidised and can write off any depreciation.  Sure second hand buyers are getting a good deal at the expense of the initial buyer.  How many private buyers will buy new? Very few.

Only yesterday 7 new BYD cars went up in a puff of smoke on the M5, without a diesel Land Rover in site!

Exodi

I dare not engage with a thread like - I have seen the cesspit of Facebook comment sections on the topic.

IMO this stems from a human aversion to change. You see similar vacuous 'debates' between ICE vs EV as you do for Manual vs Auto, Cash vs Card, Meat vs Vegetarian, etc.

In my personal experience, the financial aspect of an EV is fantastic (e.g. cheap overnight tariff, BIK tax, etc), though it does have it's drawbacks - mainly infrastructure is still lacking (and if you do manage to get to a charging point, can expect to pay 10x what you would charging at home) and there was some backwards design choices (e.g. it takes multiple presses on the touch screen to change temperature, instead of one tactile knob).

On the other hand, most of the journeys I do are short-medium distance, so I generally never need to charge away from home except in very rare circumstances. This means I save the time compared to the bi-monthly trip the fuel pumps. There's also no competition on the cost per mile. The acceleration is fantastic and I haven't had any repair issues to date (though my EV is only a few years old).

However these debates are plagued with ridiculous examples like comparing drives between Portsmouth to Inverness or the suggestion that EV's are spontaneously setting on fire up and down the country on a daily basis.

It's why I don't like to engage in topics like this, they rarely feel like a debate in good faith, but more people with unalterable pre-existing views slinging extreme examples and anecdotes back and forth.

EDIT: sorry, noticed this started as New Vs Old, rather than EV vs ICE as I assumed as OP is clearly anti-EV.

I can't say my experience aligns with the idea that new cars are breaking down all the time, I would suggest an element of 'The Fox & the Grapes'.