Are new cars really as bad as they say?

Grumpy_chap

Effician said:

2030

You do realise there will be at least 1 General Election before that date

That GE could be as late as the second half of 2029.  Even if the final date is not run to the wire, it is quite possible that by the time of the GE, the momentum has begun and the transition would progress whether the 2030 date changed or not.

WellKnownSid

Grumpy_chap said:

Effician said:

2030

You do realise there will be at least 1 General Election before that date

That GE could be as late as the second half of 2029.  Even if the final date is not run to the wire, it is quite possible that by the time of the GE, the momentum has begun and the transition would progress whether the 2030 date changed or not.

It’s going to be a bit moot by then. Take Dacia who made it abundantly clear that they would be the very last manufacturer to go electric due to their price point and the high costs involved. They would not make the move until they felt the market and supply chain was ready.

Then they dipped their toe in the water by sticking the etech hybrid from the Clio into the Jogger in 2023. The following year came the Duster with big orders for the hybrid model followed by the Spring EV and Bigster with the larger 155hp 1.8 hybrid this year.

Next year the 99hp Spring launches - which is clearly going to be the powertrain test bed for the all electric Sandero (90-100hp) arriving the following year in 2027. That’s significant as the Sandero is the best selling car in Europe so  kicks off the roadmap for full electrification of the range by 2029/30.

Herzlos

Effician said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

henry24 said:

Just looked online and can find 1410 EVs registered this year some of them 75 reg all with less than 100 miles for sale are they all fleet sales 

I am not sure what that figure in isolation means or is intended to demonstrate.  One assumes it is to show the lack of demand for EV's, but I don't really know what the point was that you are trying to make.

Anyway, I just looked on Autotrader and there are 52k 2025 cars listed for sale of which 11k are EVs.  That's about 20% of the 2025 cars listed for sale are EVs which sort of matches the sales figures mentioned in this thread.  So, all cars of all types are being discounted and pre-registered to about the same extent, or so it would seem.

I understand dealers register ICE cars but if you check cars registered this year both petrol and diesel there are 2817 compared with 1410 EVs with up to 100 miles but I don't notice anyone shouting about how good ICE sales are it's always EV supporters before they ask for more government help 

TBH, EV sales need no government help. 
If they want to help in any way, then turning to councils & funding A/C chargers in car parks is the way to go. This addresses the big issue of people with no off street parking being able to find good cheap local charging. 
Just the same as they fund councils to build cycle lanes that are rarely used.

The gov't aren't so much helping EV's as banning all opposition to them, maybe if the Gov't were to scrap the 2030 deadline for ICE vehicles to level the field we would then see how things unfold.

No chance given they reduced it back to 2030 from 2035 😜

The EV market NEEDS  that ( massive help) reassurance of 2030 otherwise it all falls to pieces , charging network providers lose confidence as well as manufacturers then buyers . You do realise there will be at least 1 General Election before that date so imo it's certainly not a done deal especially with how the political landscape is evolving.

EV sales have been growing every year even before the combustion fuel ban was proposed, so I don't think that's it. Buyers are seeing cars that are nicer to drive, cheaper to run, than don't mess up the local air as much, and with a driveway are easier to refuel.

A general election is also largely a moot point; the worldwide trend is towards EV's, and companies aren't going to be making cars just for the UK if no-one else wants them. 

Will full choice of cars, EV's of some form make up about 50% of new car sales. If I was buying new I honestly think it'd be a struggle to justify a petrol car now given the cost differences. 

Effician

Herzlos said:

Effician said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

born_again said:

henry24 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

henry24 said:

Just looked online and can find 1410 EVs registered this year some of them 75 reg all with less than 100 miles for sale are they all fleet sales 

I am not sure what that figure in isolation means or is intended to demonstrate.  One assumes it is to show the lack of demand for EV's, but I don't really know what the point was that you are trying to make.

Anyway, I just looked on Autotrader and there are 52k 2025 cars listed for sale of which 11k are EVs.  That's about 20% of the 2025 cars listed for sale are EVs which sort of matches the sales figures mentioned in this thread.  So, all cars of all types are being discounted and pre-registered to about the same extent, or so it would seem.

I understand dealers register ICE cars but if you check cars registered this year both petrol and diesel there are 2817 compared with 1410 EVs with up to 100 miles but I don't notice anyone shouting about how good ICE sales are it's always EV supporters before they ask for more government help 

TBH, EV sales need no government help. 
If they want to help in any way, then turning to councils & funding A/C chargers in car parks is the way to go. This addresses the big issue of people with no off street parking being able to find good cheap local charging. 
Just the same as they fund councils to build cycle lanes that are rarely used.

The gov't aren't so much helping EV's as banning all opposition to them, maybe if the Gov't were to scrap the 2030 deadline for ICE vehicles to level the field we would then see how things unfold.

No chance given they reduced it back to 2030 from 2035 😜

The EV market NEEDS  that ( massive help) reassurance of 2030 otherwise it all falls to pieces , charging network providers lose confidence as well as manufacturers then buyers . You do realise there will be at least 1 General Election before that date so imo it's certainly not a done deal especially with how the political landscape is evolving.

Will full choice of cars, EV's of some form make up about 50% of new car sales. If I was buying new I honestly think it'd be a struggle to justify a petrol car now given the cost differences. 

I've had the money in the bank for the last 14 months & was close to buying a new EV ( it makes sense for our driving habits) but as a private buyer & only covering around 3k miles/yr  ,it made zero financial sense to buy any new car of whatever fuel to sit depreciating on the drive so i bought a 11yr old £1400 diesel passat estate , i imagine it's the same for many other private buyers ,  

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. i also expect the fleet car drivers who prefer ICE  to turn heavily towards phev's for the tax benefit as well although they'll rarely plug in.  Business users seem to show little loyalty to fuel types & generally go for the most tax efficient option, yes they may prefer how EV's drive but tax relief will often be the decider.

The EV market is still fairly young & i guess we will see great leaps in technology over the next few yrs to make things more appealing & affordable, on the flip side there's going to be a case for increasing obselescence & high depreciation on cars of only a few yrs old , not great for private buyers who stand to lose a lot of money,  at least with ICE cars there was some kind of constant.

On the point of obselescence i was keen on a mg5 estate launched in late 2020 , by late 2021 it got a bigger battery , late 2022 it got a facelift ( many improvements ), late 2023 discontinued , replaced by mg s5 suv. Wonder how long parts will be available for older models ?.

Goudy

WellKnownSid said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Effician said:

2030

You do realise there will be at least 1 General Election before that date

That GE could be as late as the second half of 2029.  Even if the final date is not run to the wire, it is quite possible that by the time of the GE, the momentum has begun and the transition would progress whether the 2030 date changed or not.

 Bigster with the larger 155hp 1.8 hybrid this year.

That powertrain is also going into the Sandero Stepway later this year and though it's not been confirmed, it might go into the normal Sandero later next year (We'll see how it goes is the comment from Dacia's Product Boss)

As the Sandero platform is the same as the Clio, it's designed from the start to take this version of the powertrain.

It's thought there will be around £3000 premium for it, so between £19k and £21k but at £21k, that nudging into the Clio Etech, so hopefully it will be a fair chunk less.

Renault have a different platform for it's BEV's, so a BEV Sandero would likely have to have that platform and Renault will need to squeeze enough from if first before handing it on.

We have the 4 and the 5 and the new Twingo is due, so perhaps in four or five years we might see a BEV Sandero.

born_again

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

Grumpy_chap

born_again said:

PCP sales are classed as business

I am not sure that is correct.

seatbeltnoob

born_again said:

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

just made up anything to suit your narrative. A business lease is to a company, a personal lease is to an individual. vast majority of individuals buy used, very few are buying brand new. those people driving brand new cars are likely to be company cars. 

WellKnownSid

seatbeltnoob said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

just made up anything to suit your narrative. A business lease is to a company, a personal lease is to an individual. vast majority of individuals buy used, very few are buying brand new. those people driving brand new cars are likely to be company cars. 

131,003 individuals bought a new car last month.
7,552 cars were bought by businesses
174,336 were fleet

Fleet means it's gone to a fleet (over 50 vehicles - no V5C generated, bulk handling of things like road tax).  This could mean a leasing company leasing to a private individual or business, daily rental such as Hertz, large corporates, government bodies, and yes pre-registrations which magically never leave the dealership.

Car_54

WellKnownSid said:

seatbeltnoob said:

born_again said:

Effician said:

I can see why the bulk of EV sales is to business users as the tax incentives are very worth while. 

You are forgetting that all Lease & PCP sales are classed as business, as they are bought by companies & then used by personal users.
That is why there is a higher % of business sales. Not that the general public are not buying them.

In your case 2nd hand would be the best option. 

just made up anything to suit your narrative. A business lease is to a company, a personal lease is to an individual. vast majority of individuals buy used, very few are buying brand new. those people driving brand new cars are likely to be company cars. 

131,003 individuals bought a new car last month.
7,552 cars were bought by businesses
174,336 were fleet

Fleet means it's gone to a fleet (over 50 vehicles - no V5C generated, bulk handling of things like road tax).  This could mean a leasing company leasing to a private individual or business, daily rental such as Hertz, large corporates, government bodies, and yes pre-registrations which magically never leave the dealership.

On the two occasions I've bought pre-reg, they were registered to individuals. Presumably dealer staff/owners.