Here I go again ….

Rosie1001

I meant to update but I started a new job and I’m literally broken lol 

its really hard and I can barely get thru the day , I’m off for my 4 days now thou , so some rest is definitely due 

lilac_dawn

@Scot_39 I think I'm excluded from Snug as 2 of my SH require the timers set on them and this seems to go against the fact that Octopus would be able to switch them on and off - they aren't on the dedicated E7 circuit. 

Scot_39

lilac_dawn said:

@Scot_39 I think I'm excluded from Snug as 2 of my SH require the timers set on them and this seems to go against the fact that Octopus would be able to switch them on and off - they aren't on the dedicated E7 circuit. 

Sorry 

Didnt realise they would be that strict.

Does it actually say they have to control every NSH.

Have you asked them and been told no - because they do apparently ask about total numbers etc.

How significant are those 2 single wired NSH vs the rest in terms of total kW input ratings / loading.

[Those 2 NSH could in theory just be any other similar significant load - like say HW heaters not on the restricted feed - standard wall panel heaters / I have 2x 1.7 kW models in my bedrooms I never use - same power as my 2x hall NSH's - maybe even an EV wall charger (2 3.4kW 150s around same as 1 x 7 kW EV wall charger etc) - not everyone gets the full 7kW in any case - and dont they even derate to half that ]

And besides iirc if you ask Snug for 6 hours max - dont they run for 6 hours - regardless of any advance before the default 00:30 - so everything runs for the full 6 hours plus the extension - subject to thermostats - so in that case I am not sure they can do much to optimise power consumption during the overnight window in any case.

Now if they ever wanted to say set a different tariff rate for being granted more scheduling power - so those on 6 hours got say 10p - but those who allowed optimised rates by selecting sub say 3 hours got say 8p .... - that would be arguably different.  

But then you would have the EV or other non restricted feed potential heavy demand type possibility - as more of us move over from ICE - that wasn't again being controlled.

So have you actually asked ?

Phones4Chris

@lilac_dawn

Those 2 NSHs don't have to be on a E7 off-peak circuit, unless Octopus are saying you can't go on Snug as suggested by @Scot_39 , I would be surprised if that were the case.
IIRC your total usage is on off-peak during the Snug times, so you only have to ensure the timers for those NSHs are set to coincide with your Snug off-peak timings. That would also apply to any other appliances on timers you wanted to run during off-peak periods.

Rosie1001

I think octopus have to control the heaters via load switch  ,as sometimes the times vary …

I’ve had mine off peak kick in before midnight , I think it’s down to when it’s cheaper energy for them to supply it 

95 % of the time it’s around 1.30 am for mine to come on thou ..

lilac_dawn

Scot_39 said:

lilac_dawn said:

@Scot_39 I think I'm excluded from Snug as 2 of my SH require the timers set on them and this seems to go against the fact that Octopus would be able to switch them on and off - they aren't on the dedicated E7 circuit. 

Sorry 

Didnt realise they would be that strict.

Does it actually say they have to control every NSH.

Have you asked them and been told no - because they do apparently ask about total numbers etc.

How significant are those 2 single wired NSH vs the rest in terms of total kW input ratings / loading.

[Those 2 NSH could in theory just be any other similar significant load - like say HW heaters not on the restricted feed - standard wall panel heaters / I have 2x 1.7 kW models in my bedrooms I never use - same power as my 2x hall NSH's - maybe even an EV wall charger (2 3.4kW 150s around same as 1 x 7 kW EV wall charger etc) - not everyone gets the full 7kW in any case - and dont they even derate to half that ]

And besides iirc if you ask Snug for 6 hours max - dont they run for 6 hours - regardless of any advance before the default 00:30 - so everything runs for the full 6 hours plus the extension - subject to thermostats - so in that case I am not sure they can do much to optimise power consumption during the overnight window in any case.

Now if they ever wanted to say set a different tariff rate for being granted more scheduling power - so those on 6 hours got say 10p - but those who allowed optimised rates by selecting sub say 3 hours got say 8p .... - that would be arguably different.  

But then you would have the EV or other non restricted feed potential heavy demand type possibility - as more of us move over from ICE - that wasn't again being controlled.

So have you actually asked ?

No I haven't asked as my understanding is you have to switch to Octopus first. I don't want to switch and then find out I can't get snug as their current E7 tariff isn't great. I'm just basing it on this: you are eligible if...

• If your storage heaters come on and off automatically, and you don't have to set a timer to charge them overnight.

My understanding is that they need to control the SH fully as @Rosie1001 syas they vary the time to match when elec is cheapest. One of my SH on a timer is my new Quantum150 and the other is QM70 - 2 out 4 SH not on dedicated E7 circuits. 

Swipe

lilac_dawn said:

Scot_39 said:

lilac_dawn said:

@Scot_39 I think I'm excluded from Snug as 2 of my SH require the timers set on them and this seems to go against the fact that Octopus would be able to switch them on and off - they aren't on the dedicated E7 circuit. 

Sorry 

Didnt realise they would be that strict.

Does it actually say they have to control every NSH.

Have you asked them and been told no - because they do apparently ask about total numbers etc.

How significant are those 2 single wired NSH vs the rest in terms of total kW input ratings / loading.

[Those 2 NSH could in theory just be any other similar significant load - like say HW heaters not on the restricted feed - standard wall panel heaters / I have 2x 1.7 kW models in my bedrooms I never use - same power as my 2x hall NSH's - maybe even an EV wall charger (2 3.4kW 150s around same as 1 x 7 kW EV wall charger etc) - not everyone gets the full 7kW in any case - and dont they even derate to half that ]

And besides iirc if you ask Snug for 6 hours max - dont they run for 6 hours - regardless of any advance before the default 00:30 - so everything runs for the full 6 hours plus the extension - subject to thermostats - so in that case I am not sure they can do much to optimise power consumption during the overnight window in any case.

Now if they ever wanted to say set a different tariff rate for being granted more scheduling power - so those on 6 hours got say 10p - but those who allowed optimised rates by selecting sub say 3 hours got say 8p .... - that would be arguably different.  

But then you would have the EV or other non restricted feed potential heavy demand type possibility - as more of us move over from ICE - that wasn't again being controlled.

So have you actually asked ?

No I haven't asked as my understanding is you have to switch to Octopus first. I don't want to switch and then find out I can't get snug as their current E7 tariff isn't great. I'm just basing it on this: you are eligible if...

• If your storage heaters come on and off automatically, and you don't have to set a timer to charge them overnight.

My understanding is that they need to control the SH fully as @Rosie1001 syas they vary the time to match when elec is cheapest. One of my SH on a timer is my new Quantum150 and the other is QM70 - 2 out 4 SH not on dedicated E7 circuits. 

They don't control the SH, they control off peak dedicated circuit via ALCS. Their explanation is just worded in layman's terms. You can just tell them what they want to hear. As long as you have control of your timers they'll be none the wiser of your actual SH setup. It's not like you are running all 4 on timers. And even then, they'd hardly be scrutinising your usage to try to catch you out.

lilac_dawn

So that would mean I might miss the low peak hour as it’s not always at the same time? 

Swipe

lilac_dawn said:

So that would mean I might miss the low peak hour as it’s not always at the same time? 

That's what I assumed as well, but according to posts in this thread, the SNUG off peak price is static between 00:30 and 6:30 GMT even if your ALCS switches your storage heaters off. So as long as you set the timer to that window, none will be charged at peak rate. I'll invite others to chime in if that is incorrect. I believe the afternoon boost time is pretty consistent too once active, but you'd have to monitor that carefully. Either way, I very much doubt it would beat Utility Warehouse E7 cost wise and there you'd be able to set and forget and never worry about the timings being wrong once you have verified your ALCS switch times..

Scot_39

Swipe said:

lilac_dawn said:

So that would mean I might miss the low peak hour as it’s not always at the same time? 

That's what I assumed as well, but according to posts in this thread, the SNUG off peak price is static between 00:30 and 6:30 GMT even if your ALCS switches your storage heaters off. So as long as you set the timer to that window, none will be charged at peak rate. I'll invite others to chime in if that is incorrect. I believe the afternoon boost time is pretty consistent too once active, but you'd have to monitor that carefully. Either way, I very much doubt it would beat Utility Warehouse E7 cost wise and there you'd be able to set and forget and never worry about the timings being wrong once you have verified your ALCS switch times..

From 

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

Under the FAQ selection

How Much Does Snug Cost ?

Snug Octopus is a smart tariff with peak and off-peak pricing. The electricity for your whole home will be charged at the off-peak rate of 9p/kWh:

• Between 00:30 and 06:30 each night
• Whenever your storage heater is charging on your smart schedule. This is based on the preferences you give us when you sign up
• During your daily one-hour afternoon boost. (This will help make sure your home is toasty in time for tea!)

The rest of the time, you'll be charged the day rate. You can check the rates for your region by popping in your postcode in the 'How it works' section on this page.

So basically I've always interpreted that as 

- the full core hours regardless of ALCS scheduling 

- any time out of core when ALCS scheduled by them (you are allowed to select less than 6 hours of overnight ? / total ? charge per day) - like when they advance before midnight 

- and of course the "boost" hour in the afternoon. 

So Ive assumed - but not able to switch to it without a meter upgrade - and they couldn't offer me a date for that when spoke to them - that core would say be available say even for heavy loads like EV charging etc not switched by ALCS - at the 9p rate as well as NSH / HW immersion heating etc.