Please god help, 60k in debt and feeling suicidal

kimwp · 16 January at 9:21PM

I just scanned some of the earlier posts and spotted that you said your husband pays the council tax, but you've put it in your SOA, should it be in there?

EssexHebridean · 16 January at 9:49PM

I’ll just say “what Kim said” about the situation with who pays what. So essentially he’s now going to leave you to pick up the tab for paying for his lifestyle for the past however long is he? Nice. 🤬

Anyway, drawing a line under his behaviour…

You don’t need to do anything about contacting anyone with payments yet - with the one that appears to have defaulted you, they have said that they will contact you, so for now, sit tight. You need to see the default on your. Edit file before you commit to offering anything in my view.

The SOA - there are a few gaps and questions here
- why is the TV license so much?

- Groceries and internet both look quite low - especially groceries. Bluntly you aren’t feeding a family on this money, I’ve been playing this game for years and struggle to keep food basic toiletries and cleaning stuff for two of us down to below £250 these days.
- presents and Christmas expenses need to be budgeted for
- you have some car costs but no maintenance costs - you have to put money aside for those else when the servicing bill comes in, or it needs tyres or whatever else, you can pay it - and from now you won’t be reaching for a credit card to bridge the gap.

- clothing - you need at least a “socks and pants” budget for yourself, but more to the point as you already know kids need clothes. Littlelest presumably has hand me downs from big sibling, but the bigger one is going to need at least the basics even if for top clothes you have more hand me downs from other relatives or friends children.

- Kim has already questioned house insurance
- holidays - we’d usually say to budget for that but frankly your budget just doesn’t have the room in in for holidays.

The key thing to underline here is that even without debt repayments your income doesn’t stretch to the outgoings that are being expected of you. Generally in a partnership when something happens that affects one party’s income, both parties work together to cut their cloth to suit, and rebalance things so the priority bills can still be met. In your case it seems this hasn’t happened. The debt is actually entirely irrelevant here - you simply no longer have enough income for your household split to work. That isn’t your fault in any way, shape or form.

eleanorl89 · 16 January at 9:58PM

kimwp said:

eleanorl89 said:

I’ve just had a chat with my Husband about an SOA & he’s basically told me to keep him completely out of it, so i’ll post my account details below

We have separate accounts & it has always been agreed between us that he would pay for the mortgage & I pay for the bills. We’ve split costs such as meals out etc one pays then the other etc. It’s why the debt rose so much, as I haven’t been working, so things (including bills) went on credit cards

Not sure if i’ve done this right so apologies if it’s a load of nonsense!

[font=courier new][b]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet[/b][b]

Household Information[/b]
Number of adults in household........... 1
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... [b]

Monthly Income Details[/b]
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 1153.66
Other income............................ 0[b]
Total monthly income.................... 1153.66[/b][b]

Monthly Expense Details[/b]
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 135
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 168
Electricity............................. 95
Gas..................................... 95
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 30
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 25
TV Licence.............................. 28.25
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 18
Internet Services....................... 17
Groceries etc. ......................... 200
Clothing................................ 0
Petrol/diesel........................... 50
Road tax................................ 0
Car Insurance........................... 27
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 50
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 100
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 0
Entertainment........................... 45
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Student Loan............................ 30[b]
Total monthly expenses.................. 1113.25[/b]
[b]

Assets[/b]
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 310000
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 0
Other assets............................ 0[b]
Total Assets............................ 310000[/b]
[b]

Secured & HP Debts[/b]
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 265000...(0)........0
Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 5100.....(135)......0[b]
Total secured & HP debts...... 270100....-.........- [/b]

[b]Unsecured Debts[/b]
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
MBNA Loan......................9193......0.........0
MBNA CC........................9286......0.........0
Natwest CC.....................19719.....0.........0
Very...........................2750......0.........0
Virgin CC......................4811......0.........0
Barclaycard CC.................14094.....0.........0[b]
Total unsecured debts..........59853.....0.........- [/b]

[b]
Monthly Budget Summary[/b]
Total monthly income.................... 1,153.66
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,113.25
Available for debt repayments........... 40.41
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0[b]
Amount left after debt repayments....... 40.41[/b]

[b]Personal Balance Sheet Summary[/b]
Total assets (things you own)........... 310,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -270,100
Total Unsecured debt.................... -59,853[b]
Net Assets.............................. -19,953[/b]

[i]Created using the SOA calculator at www.LemonFool.co.uk.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.[/i][/font]

I'll be more about the numbers in this post and leave the emotion in my other post

It's more tricky to do an SOA with only part of a household, but it just means we need to make sure we (you and us) ask all a few more questions to make sure it is accurate. If it is the SOA for a whole household, then we just need to check that the figures are accurate and then we can make some judgement based on household size if the figures could be easily reduced or maybe increased because that allowance for that spend is not sustainable. If the SOA is for part of a household, we need to understand what the cost is for each category for the whole household for the previous reasons and your contribution (for each category where you are making a contribution - if your husband is paying it all and happy to pay it, then we don't need to know about it.)

First observations are that
- the numbers seem very round - have you been through your bank accounts for the last 3-6 months (ideally 12 months) and added the total cost and divided by 12?
- groceries seem low, is this really what you are spending as a household?
- do you have contents/house insurance? Do you have life assurance? All quite important if you have a house and dependents.
- Does any of those benefits need to be paid back? (Eg if your husband earns over the thresholds, and if so, what is the agreement - do you keep the money or does it go to him?)
- Is that £45 entertainment the meals out you mentioned? If not, where is this?
- What is the situation with the car? Who uses it, do you need it?

Thank you!

This is based on a budget i created for myself when things started to get on top of my & the CC money transfers started to run out. I’ve rounded things up to the nearest pound in most cases

Groceries, we do 2 weekly shops a month each, i typically spend £100 for each of mine, if not a little bit less

Did have insurance but cancelled it all (apart from car insurance) when I started to get into financial difficulty

He earned over the threshold up until a few months ago when he was given reduced hours at work. So I wasn’t claiming any benefits until that point, i’d never really thought about it at all to be honest until it was mentioned by a family member. Everything was just being paid for with CC money transfers / the loan. All benefits go to me

The £45 is for things I do with my children. A couple of playgroups I pay for in blocks & a soft play I like to take my eldest to a couple of times a month

i haven’t budgeted for anything like meals out, as there won’t be any for the foreseeable

I use the car, it’s nothing fancy at all but i do need it as we don’t live centrally. I have looked at selling it, but there isn’t enough equity in it to pay off the HP & buy another suitable for 2 children & 2 dogs with the cash

I’m in a real mess aren’t i

eleanorl89 · 16 January at 10:09PM

kimwp said:

I just scanned some of the earlier posts and spotted that you said your husband pays the council tax, but you've put it in your SOA, should it be in there?

Good spot! Yes that shouldn’t be in there sorry

EssexHebridean · 16 January at 10:18PM

Nah - it’s honestly just money. I get that sounds flippant, but put things into context - you have your beautiful children who I just bet are the two most important humans in thr entire world, to you. THEY are what is important, above all else. You can cover the absolute essentials, and beyond that everything else is just trimmings.

A secret for you - you can make savings on your grocery bills. Probably not much but enough to create a bit of wiggle room in your budget. The trick will be to ensure really tight meal planning, and as far as possible base your plans around things that you already have in the fridge, freezer and cupboards. You will still be producing nice tasty meals, but your shopping bills for your weekly shops will drop at least a bit as you’ll naturally be buying a bit less.

QrizB · 16 January at 10:54PM

EssexHebridean said:

A secret for you - you can make savings on your grocery bills. Probably not much but enough to create a bit of wiggle room in your budget. The trick will be to ensure really tight meal planning, and as far as possible base your plans around things that you already have in the fridge, freezer and cupboards. You will still be producing nice tasty meals, but your shopping bills for your weekly shops will drop at least a bit as you’ll naturally be buying a bit less.

... and of course, you'll ask your husband to top up the gaps when he does his shops

I still can't believe that he's expecting you to continue to pay most of the household expenses when you've got no income. We're domestic Marxists (link to relevant forum post).

HampshireH · 16 January at 11:24PM

£100 is a lot for a weekly shop for 2 adults 2 kids. If your able to get to a cheaper store this could help (alongside proper meal planning).

Everytime you cook something in a pot/on hob (like bolognaise , chilli, stew, soup, sweet n sour, curry, etc freeze a portion of 2 (we keep takeaway tubs of freezing in) your portions can be bulked out too with lentils/veggies as a base for sauce.

If you can plan like this you can be saving money on your shops as you won't be needing to buy main ingredients each week.

I've also found doing breakfasts or lunches the night before stops me snacking or buying stuff for lunch. It also means it's done when I wake up so no excuses not to eat what I made.

Also if you are up with the baby or nap trapped look at sites like prolific etc where you can earn money online by surveys. It can be a bit tedious and slow BUT your nap trapped so not going to be doing anything else anyway. Every little helps. Likewise cash back sites or prepaid supermarket card where you save 5 or 10% when you load them up then buy your shopping on them.

Your husband is in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks you can maintain the same financial demands on maternity leave as you could when working. The split needs looking at to be proportionate to your incomes (ignoring your debt to start with)

kimwp · 16 January at 11:31PM

eleanorl89 said:

kimwp said:

eleanorl89 said:

I’ve just had a chat with my Husband about an SOA & he’s basically told me to keep him completely out of it, so i’ll post my account details below

We have separate accounts & it has always been agreed between us that he would pay for the mortgage & I pay for the bills. We’ve split costs such as meals out etc one pays then the other etc. It’s why the debt rose so much, as I haven’t been working, so things (including bills) went on credit cards

Not sure if i’ve done this right so apologies if it’s a load of nonsense!

[font=courier new][b]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet[/b][b]

Household Information[/b]
Number of adults in household........... 1
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... [b]

Monthly Income Details[/b]
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 1153.66
Other income............................ 0[b]
Total monthly income.................... 1153.66[/b][b]

Monthly Expense Details[/b]
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 135
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 168
Electricity............................. 95
Gas..................................... 95
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 30
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 25
TV Licence.............................. 28.25
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 18
Internet Services....................... 17
Groceries etc. ......................... 200
Clothing................................ 0
Petrol/diesel........................... 50
Road tax................................ 0
Car Insurance........................... 27
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 50
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 100
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 0
Entertainment........................... 45
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Student Loan............................ 30[b]
Total monthly expenses.................. 1113.25[/b]
[b]

Assets[/b]
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 310000
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 0
Other assets............................ 0[b]
Total Assets............................ 310000[/b]
[b]

Secured & HP Debts[/b]
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 265000...(0)........0
Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 5100.....(135)......0[b]
Total secured & HP debts...... 270100....-.........- [/b]

[b]Unsecured Debts[/b]
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
MBNA Loan......................9193......0.........0
MBNA CC........................9286......0.........0
Natwest CC.....................19719.....0.........0
Very...........................2750......0.........0
Virgin CC......................4811......0.........0
Barclaycard CC.................14094.....0.........0[b]
Total unsecured debts..........59853.....0.........- [/b]

[b]
Monthly Budget Summary[/b]
Total monthly income.................... 1,153.66
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,113.25
Available for debt repayments........... 40.41
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0[b]
Amount left after debt repayments....... 40.41[/b]

[b]Personal Balance Sheet Summary[/b]
Total assets (things you own)........... 310,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -270,100
Total Unsecured debt.................... -59,853[b]
Net Assets.............................. -19,953[/b]

[i]Created using the SOA calculator at www.LemonFool.co.uk.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.[/i][/font]

I'll be more about the numbers in this post and leave the emotion in my other post

It's more tricky to do an SOA with only part of a household, but it just means we need to make sure we (you and us) ask all a few more questions to make sure it is accurate. If it is the SOA for a whole household, then we just need to check that the figures are accurate and then we can make some judgement based on household size if the figures could be easily reduced or maybe increased because that allowance for that spend is not sustainable. If the SOA is for part of a household, we need to understand what the cost is for each category for the whole household for the previous reasons and your contribution (for each category where you are making a contribution - if your husband is paying it all and happy to pay it, then we don't need to know about it.)

First observations are that
- the numbers seem very round - have you been through your bank accounts for the last 3-6 months (ideally 12 months) and added the total cost and divided by 12?
- groceries seem low, is this really what you are spending as a household?
- do you have contents/house insurance? Do you have life assurance? All quite important if you have a house and dependents.
- Does any of those benefits need to be paid back? (Eg if your husband earns over the thresholds, and if so, what is the agreement - do you keep the money or does it go to him?)
- Is that £45 entertainment the meals out you mentioned? If not, where is this?
- What is the situation with the car? Who uses it, do you need it?

Thank you!

This is based on a budget i created for myself when things started to get on top of my & the CC money transfers started to run out. I’ve rounded things up to the nearest pound in most cases

Groceries, we do 2 weekly shops a month each, i typically spend £100 for each of mine, if not a little bit less

Did have insurance but cancelled it all (apart from car insurance) when I started to get into financial difficulty

He earned over the threshold up until a few months ago when he was given reduced hours at work. So I wasn’t claiming any benefits until that point, i’d never really thought about it at all to be honest until it was mentioned by a family member. Everything was just being paid for with CC money transfers / the loan. All benefits go to me

The £45 is for things I do with my children. A couple of playgroups I pay for in blocks & a soft play I like to take my eldest to a couple of times a month

i haven’t budgeted for anything like meals out, as there won’t be any for the foreseeable

I use the car, it’s nothing fancy at all but i do need it as we don’t live centrally. I have looked at selling it, but there isn’t enough equity in it to pay off the HP & buy another suitable for 2 children & 2 dogs with the cash

I’m in a real mess aren’t i

Okidoki, what did you base the budget on and have you been able to keep to it? It needs to be accurate, otherwise you'll end up in a pickle again. It sounds pernickity, but you do really need to use your accounts to get the accurate figures, because they can be dramatically different to what we think. Two shops a month is 12 x 2 * £100 = £2400. A shop every other week is 52/2 * £100 = £2600. There's no rush to get it done, but it's important that's accurate.

I think you should reinstate the insurances as a priority - (or actually your husband should get them sorted and be paying for them, but that might be a conversation for another time)

And also figure out how much of your inheritance went on the house, how much went on your business and how much went on splitting bills/family spends - not for us to know, but in case you need it.

I don't know the new numbers for the child benefit thresholds, but over a certain income, they have to be partly paid back by the higher earner, increasing as their income increases, until they need to be fully paid back. You should understand where your husband's income sits within this, in case any needs to be repaid. NB, claiming child benefit means that you get NI credits towards your state pension until your youngest is over 12, so even if you decide as a pair that you don't want the hassle of returning the money, you should still claim, but elect to not receive the payments, so you still get the NI credits.

I'm heading to bed, so I'll read the rest properly tomorrow, but don't worry, financial "messes" are the easiest to sort out, one step in front of the other and you'll get through.

PixelPound · 16 January at 11:49PM

eleanorl89 said:

Also guys, just wondering about CCAs after reading some more threads

My Barclaycard CC was opened over 10 years ago, in 2014 - with limit increases happening in more recent years (original limit was £3500 which crept up to 15k over the years)

My Natwest CC was opened over 7 years ago, in 2017. (Always had a 20k limit)

Should I be requesting the CCAs for these cards? Or are they likely to have all paperwork in order as they’re obviously major banks

(Don’t really know what i’m talking about to be honest!)

CCA's really can be a red herring as most of the time now these are electronic and companies are allowed to reconstitute them from templates. CCA requests are more useful for once debts are sold on to DCA (the reasoning being the DCA have to request it from the original creditor). The crux of CCA is if a company cannot provide you with a CCA then they cannot take legal action (or if they try then that's your defence). Basically you say to cease contacting you until they prove you owe the debt (have a contracted agreement for credit).

There was comments about affordability. If you were maxing your CC and were getting CLI each time then even if you've been making minimum payments you would have a case of it was irresponsible for them to offer to increase it. However no use for the Natwest if it's always had £20K limit

EssexHebridean · 17 January at 7:52AM

Yes - that Barclaycard going from £3500 to £15k in 10 years really ought to have flagged up to someone that there was a problem I would have thought. That’s definitely one it might be worth making an affordability complaint about down the line.

Right now though - carry on carrying on, wait out the defaults, learn to live with that budget, and begin to get an idea what sort of payments might be achievable. (Realistically at the moment that’s going to be token payments though I would think?)

one thing - Emergency fund. I presume that your husband will be looking after that aspect, as there definitely isn’t any slack in your budget to be doing so. This means that in the event of something unforeseen going wrong, he will need to be the one to sort that out of course - you need to step aside from any presumption that you will do so. I don’t think we have asked, but you have already destroyed any credit cards you still have, haven’t you?

Please god help, 60k in debt and feeling suicidal

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