PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

tifo

Muddy_Walker said:

yet cannot answer any questions on meeting the descriptors

I think i did that before and definitely after the Shelter appointment, on which descriptors are possible.

tifo

Cressida100 said:

You also talk about going for MR and then tribunal in your next application. You obviously don't have much confidence that this new application will gain you an award. 

I am more confident this time but in the 'previous' PIP claim which i stopped this week the only reason i didn't submit an MR is because of no record on anxiety or OCD which i will have this time, even if a note so say i've seen the GP about it.

Like i keep saying this new claim is to correct mistakes i made in the last one. I wouldn't need to do it if i didn't get 0 points in the way i did and the report is as it is.

tifo

Muttleythefrog said:

You're ignoring the advice and I cannot comprehend why you think otherwise.... you are setting yourself up to repeat the same mistakes I would suggest. I agree with what others above have said.

You're one of the posters who've suggested a new claim and you've given good advice ....

sheramber

You are not saying what he wants to hear. 

He is not going to change his mindset because one person, who is not  involved in assessing for PIP , suggested he apply. They did say he would be successful but that is what he has chosen hear. 

That is now his mission. 

tifo

peteuk said:

Can we get this thread closed, its 35 pages long, the OP has contradicted themselves more than once, is obviously either failing to understand or choosing not to understand the advice given and is just going round in circles. 

If admin close this thread based on the request of someone who doesn't agree with posts then that stops others who have an interest in following it, as some useful info may come out of it.

Those that no longer have an interest in this thread have stopped posting on it and left that to those that want to continue to read it.

I know you've posted advice, which is appreciated as you've taken the time to do it, and it's all been taken on board by me.

tifo

peteuk said:

You would have undertaken an anxiety score when you undertake a depression score, they go hand in hand.  So it will be easy got your gp or cpn attached to the surgery to look at these and advise if you were anxious, (GAD 7 and PHQ 9)

Doing a self test online and answering honestly, i score 17 in the PHQ-9 and 19 in the GAD-7 for how i feel now not how i did in 2019.

I've tried several online tests and all give above 15 score.

With OCD i'll see what the GP does.

tifo

sheramber said:

They did say he would be successful but that is what he has chosen hear.  

Who said this?

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

Muttleythefrog said:

You're ignoring the advice and I cannot comprehend why you think otherwise.... you are setting yourself up to repeat the same mistakes I would suggest. I agree with what others above have said.

You're one of the posters who've suggested a new claim and you've given good advice ....

I have made it very clear..... that a new claim if you honestly consider yourself to meet criteria for a successful PIP award (no evidence you've done that at all even in your recent analysis talking about descriptors!) is perhaps the best course of action.... however I have also made it very clear why and this raises why I say this seems far too early to make new claim. The idea is not that you suddenly have OCD on your form or have met your GP about it.... the idea is you over the coming months seek professional support for your claimed problem that leads to a basis of evidence to substantiate any claimed significant disablements (it hopefully would also lead to better understanding of your condition which you evidently lack as your last application shows.. and possible treatment or other help... the idea being from a PIP perspective and health perspective you could be advantaged!). Then apply armed with the backing of far more than a simple diagnosis or record of a GP appointment... with perhaps mental health specialist reports that detail your problems and their assessment.  That PIP application then has solid professional basis for you to go into your form or an assessment explaining how your OCD is disabling and enables an assessor or Decision Maker to pin their useful opinions on. What you lacked in the last application wasn't a diagnosis although that was inclusive... it was a complete absence of any evidence to back claimed OCD related disablements.... a diagnosis is just one element of evidence but the high benchmarks of disability for PIP especially in activities you suggest severe disablement are likely to require a far better basis to impress an assessor or DM. This is particular relevant for mental illnesses because one person's illness may be relatively unaffecting of daily life yet another with same diagnosis may be high disabled by it.... and if all you've engaged is your GP they may think it isn't serious or it's too early to make any judgement on how disabling it could be... they may even point to the idea you've had no treatment or specialist input so it's unlikely to be significant a problem. 

I myself had problems getting DLA not because of a lack of diagnosis but because of a lack of evidence of how seriously that affected me... and while I described it they simply either didn't believe me or lacked the supporting evidence to believe me. Once I started getting psychiatric reports and in particular CPN assessments the ball game changed.... I could explain my disablements and point to professional documentation detailing corroboratory facts or opinion. Like guiding a supermarket trolley it then makes it hard for assessors or DMs to ignore the problems or discount what you say... and a tribunal surely would not if it is consistent with professional documentation. You unfortunately seem to keep thinking they did not consider OCD in your assessment/decision... they did.... but they lacked any supporting evidence of the condition and its severity.. so they could not deliver any reliable opinion on the severe disabling effects... you are heading into risking exactly the same problem if all you take forward is reference and perhaps a casual GP diagnosis or similar.

So you have completely ignored my advice and that of others..... and I suggest "I think i did that before and definitely after the Shelter appointment, on which descriptors are possible" also is completely out with the advice I gave which is to honestly assess yourself as to what descriptors do apply....not could... may.... I mean it's possible we'll both could go to the moon... but realistically we won't. What descriptors do you meet...page 36 and still the best we have is what you think you could score on.... this aimless vision is why you are not hitting the dart board perhaps.... knowing what the realistic outcome should be enables you to make clear cases, arguments and evidence selection to fit.... guiding others to conclude the same as you did.

Another poster raised a key point.... if you happened to be successful in this claim made at this early stage of OCD investigation... there is every chance that award would be particularly short given that a key reason many awards are short is the expectation of imminent investigation and treatment of conditions that then may change in disablement. 

In simple... my advice is:
1. Seek medical help for your claimed problem (OCD) and see how that plays out in terms of getting help you need, diagnosis, better understanding of condition, treatment.
2. Honestly appraise against PIP criteria to see if award should be made - if yes then 3
3. When/if in a position where the problem has been explored there is suitably supportive professional documentation that at least verifies your claimed problems and describes your difficulties then 4
4. Make new claim for PIP adding this condition that has been documented/explored for more than 3 months... describe along with any other conditions the disabling impacts relevant to the descriptors applicable to you.. pointing to (included) supporting evidence as suitable.

This advice in my opinion gives greatest chance of improving your wellbeing (in relation to anxiety disorders - your focus here is on PIP but for most people with any health problem the usual advice is seek appropriate medical help and this is what a 3rd party would expect if one had a serious problem) and chances of a successful PIP claim of suitable level and respectable length. The fact you are already looking forward to the help with a MR for the next claim suggests you know it a possible tactical error to apply now... or even apply at all!

tifo

Muttleythefrog said:

You're one of the posters who've suggested a new claim and you've given good advice ....

I have made it very clear..... that a new claim if you honestly consider yourself to meet criteria for a successful PIP award (no evidence you've done that at all even in your recent analysis talking about descriptors!) is perhaps the best course of action.... however I have also made it very clear why and this raises why I say this seems far too early to make new claim. The idea is not that you suddenly have OCD on your form or have met your GP about it.... the idea is you over the coming months seek professional support for your claimed problem that leads to a basis of evidence to substantiate any claimed significant disablements (it hopefully would also lead to better understanding of your condition which you evidently lack as your last application shows.. and possible treatment or other help... the idea being from a PIP perspective and health perspective you could be advantaged!). Then apply armed with the backing of far more than a simple diagnosis or record of a GP appointment... with perhaps mental health specialist reports that detail your problems and their assessment.  That PIP application then has solid professional basis for you to go into your form or an assessment explaining how your OCD is disabling and enables an assessor or Decision Maker to pin their useful opinions on. What you lacked in the last application wasn't a diagnosis although that was inclusive... it was a complete absence of any evidence to back claimed OCD related disablements.... a diagnosis is just one element of evidence but the high benchmarks of disability for PIP especially in activities you suggest severe disablement are likely to require a far better basis to impress an assessor or DM. This is particular relevant for mental illnesses because one person's illness may be relatively unaffecting of daily life yet another with same diagnosis may be high disabled by it.... and if all you've engaged is your GP they may think it isn't serious or it's too early to make any judgement on how disabling it could be... they may even point to the idea you've had no treatment or specialist input so it's unlikely to be significant a problem. 

I myself had problems getting DLA not because of a lack of diagnosis but because of a lack of evidence of how seriously that affected me... and while I described it they simply either didn't believe me or lacked the supporting evidence to believe me. Once I started getting psychiatric reports and in particular CPN assessments the ball game changed.... I could explain my disablements and point to professional documentation detailing corroboratory facts or opinion. Like guiding a supermarket trolley it then makes it hard for assessors or DMs to ignore the problems or discount what you say... and a tribunal surely would not if it is consistent with professional documentation. You unfortunately seem to keep thinking they did not consider OCD in your assessment/decision... they did.... but they lacked any supporting evidence of the condition and its severity.. so they could not deliver any reliable opinion on the severe disabling effects... you are heading into risking exactly the same problem if all you take forward is reference and perhaps a casual GP diagnosis or similar.

So you have completely ignored my advice and that of others..... and I suggest "I think i did that before and definitely after the Shelter appointment, on which descriptors are possible" also is completely out with the advice I gave which is to honestly assess yourself as to what descriptors do apply....not could... may.... I mean it's possible we'll both could go to the moon... but realistically we won't. What descriptors do you meet...page 36 and still the best we have is what you think you could score on.... this aimless vision is why you are not hitting the dart board perhaps.... knowing what the realistic outcome should be enables you to make clear cases, arguments and evidence selection to fit.... guiding others to conclude the same as you did.

Another poster raised a key point.... if you happened to be successful in this claim made at this early stage of OCD investigation... there is every chance that award would be particularly short given that a key reason many awards are short is the expectation of imminent investigation and treatment of conditions that then may change in disablement. 

In simple... my advice is:
1. Seek medical help for your claimed problem (OCD) and see how that plays out in terms of getting help you need, diagnosis, better understanding of condition, treatment.
2. Honestly appraise against PIP criteria to see if award should be made - if yes then 3
3. When/if in a position where the problem has been explored there is suitably supportive professional documentation that at least verifies your claimed problems and describes your difficulties then 4
4. Make new claim for PIP adding this condition that has been documented/explored for more than 3 months... describe along with any other conditions the disabling impacts relevant to the descriptors applicable to you.. pointing to (included) supporting evidence as suitable.

This advice in my opinion gives greatest chance of improving your wellbeing (in relation to anxiety disorders - your focus here is on PIP but for most people with any health problem the usual advice is seek appropriate medical help and this is what a 3rd party would expect if one had a serious problem) and chances of a successful PIP claim of suitable level and respectable length.

Thanks, i hear you .....

"Make new claim for PIP adding this condition that has been documented/explored for more than 3 months".

Because i've made the claim yesterday i'll need to assess, after i discuss the new conditions with my GP and any treatment going forward, whether to complete the form within the 30 days or ask for more time.

"I myself had problems getting DLA not because of a lack of diagnosis but because of a lack of evidence of how seriously that affected me... and while I described it they simply either didn't believe me or lacked the supporting evidence to believe me".

I've had this problem, apart from the anxiety and OCD mentioned in the recent assessment i have evidence of my other conditions going back many years but the assessors chose not to believe that i'm affected in the ways i say i am. Not to say that i don't suffer but that i don't reach a majority.

"there is every chance that award would be particularly short given that a key reason many awards are short is the expectation of imminent investigation and treatment of conditions".

To be honest i'm not expecting any award to be long term (5 years or more) and i expect it to be 2 years or 18 months which i'd be happy with and could work on for the review. So, if they award 18 months and say we'll review after treatments i'd see that as a success. The shortest they could award is the 9 months they expect disablement to continue.

Cressida100

OP you are grasping at straws. You are determined to 'get' PIP on any basis.

Please listen to and take on board the great advice that some very experienced (and patient) members of the forum have given you.

Concentrate on getting medical help with your 'disorders' and you might not need to go through the PIP process time and time again.