PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

ayupmeduck

tifo said:

I received the assessment report at the weekend after 2 weeks and it's disappointing reading.

Whilst the assessor has stated most of what I said, not all, in most of the activities she's used the fact that I have a driving license as a reason that I can do that activity, this is stated in bathing, therapy, dressing, toilet use, going on a journey. It states that because I have adequate vision and limb movement to move I should be able to carry out the activity reliably. So because I can drive I can bathe without aid or help, can put eye drops without help, can dress without help, can go to to the toilet without help and can go on any journey I like anywhere without help.

And because I can walk for shopping for 30 mins without stopping I can walk anywhere for more than 200 metres.

And because my partner accompanies me to hospital visits then I should be able to engage with people without any problems.

What i've said above is all in the report.

By that logic when i can't drive then i should not be able to carry out that activity?

She wrote in the notes about my anxiety and OCD but has totally ignored these for the descriptors, i think citing later that they're not diagnosed even though we discussed them in detail in the assessment.

She's only cited 1 hospital letter as evidence and none of the photos, and then the GP record and my previous PIP report from 2021 and the current PIP form.

What does VB, MOD and OPD mean? They're not in the 'abbreviations used' section but are used a lot (I know what they are now).

From the report I can now see that the decision has quoted some word for word statements and I can believe this as it seems there was not much of a decision made by the case manager, he's just quoted from the report. It was all so quick, assessment report sent to DWP an hour after and decision sent out to me the next day.

depending on what you said for engaging and going out it would be correct,

can you use a sat nav, follow diversions, drive new routes etc

why does your partner accompany you to appointments...who can you talk - shop assistants/delivery men/new health professionals... how does it make you feel...do you shut down without support...could you do it if your husband wasn't available.....

as your physical issues don't affect you MOD then that's why you scored A for mobility.

you don't need a diagnosis of MH or medication or specialists but it depends on why you don't have these

tifo

peteuk said:

tifo said:

For mobility they don't think I'll get any points but I thought I have more chance of mobility points than care but according to them I'm close to a care award by updating my medical record but not near an award for mobility. Whilst my gout and osteoarthritis (OA) affect me they don't think it's in the majority. BUT this is by taking account of severe gout days only and not the moderate or mild days. Much like what the assessor did.

I say I should score (b) 4 points for can move 50 to 200 metres with mild gout/OA or (c) 8 points for can move 20 to 50 metres when moderate gout/OA or (e) 12 points for can move 1 to 20 metres when severe gout. Taking into account OA which is mild at the moment but occasionally moderate I'd realistically think I'd get max 8 points in mobility for gout but 4 points is likely. I don't use an aid, eg walking stick so I  can't ask for 10 points for (d). Saying all this, I want to argue the maximum points I can get.

If your gout/OA is not the majority of the time, you will not score anything.   Your logic is floored, and therefore until you change the way you think you will again come across in assessment as not genuine.   You can either walk 50 - 200 meters, or 20 to 50 meters or 1 to 20 meters the majority of the time, your score doesnt change, nor does your ability to do so in PIP, its the majority of time.  So if you can walk 200 meters for 28 weeks, 50 meters for 12 weeks and 10 meters for 12 weeks, then PIP will say you can walk 200 meters.

Yes, i understand this. What i meant was that the assessor could consider a range of options. So, they may think i can walk 50 to 200 metres the majority of the time then they would award 4 points. I didn't say they could add up the options. Under the circumstances this is reasonable and i'm fully aware that they choose the first option they can to award 0 points, like the standard supermarket walk for 30 mins or the driving license trap.

tifo

ayupmeduck said:

I understand what you say but the decision says "you report being able to walk 30 minutes without stopping at a normal pace" and if this has a different meaning isn't that unfair? To me standing still (pausing) is stopping even if to catch my breath for a minute. If I do 10 of these, a minute each, and walk for 20 mins in total that's not really walking without stopping for 30 mins. I think ....

"How often is 'not always'?  How often would you be able to".

I drive more than i don't over the year but if i can't drive because of gout or arthritis then that doesn't mean i normally would be driving at that time, like most people i drive when i need to and sometimes need to but can't. Even able bodied people don't drive all the time and of course disabled people do drive and even the Motability scheme helps them to. So, in my opinion, being able to drive doesn't mean everything is OK all the time which is what the decision is kind of saying.

a 1 minute break/rest is not a pause and if you drive regularly especially if a manual car, it goes against you, regular doesn't have to be 4-5 times each week either. If you arthritis/gout doesn't affect you the majority of days then it doesn't count.

"a 1 minute break/rest is not a pause"

How long is a pause? I ask because it may come up in a future MR or tribunal. How long is a rest considered a pause to catch one's breath so to speak?

tifo

ayupmeduck said:

you don't need a diagnosis of MH or medication or specialists but it depends on why you don't have these

I have a diagnosis of depression from 2019 but this doesn't include anxiety, in hindsight it should have but it's not something brought up with my GP at that time as i had more severe conditions to deal with (still have them) and kind of never spoke to the GP about it after that. I have a tendency to leave things until 'milestones' have passed in my mind, i.e. i'll do this thing after that other thing and so on. In this way time passes and i'm behind. I know this is wrong but it's the way I am.

I've been told again and again that i need a diagnosis of anxiety and OCD in my PIP form and GP record for them to be considered in the assessment and not having these on record (and they affect me greatly) is why the assessor didn't consider them, their complaint response said the same and the Shelter advisor won't help with an MR as in her opinion i can score points in the daily living but not enough for an award but with an anxiety and OCD diagnosis and treatment i might be able to.

tifo

tifo said:

The advice is to make a new claim for the previously unreported conditions after seeing my GP (same as what some members say here) ..... So this is what I'll do. PIP claim 3rd time with new conditions.

I've today made a new claim for PIP and this time asked to complete it online, they've sent me a link to the form to complete within a month.

I've only had to do this because i didn't include anxiety and OCD in the PIP form or my GP record and they won't be taken into consideration. So it's to correct a mistake.

This thread and the advice in it will be useful and i'll aim not to make the same mistakes i've made in this last claim. I'm thankful to everyone who posted, regardless of their opinions.

I assume i can't make a new claim and submit an MR for the previous one, not that i think it will make any difference? Might as well take the time loss of 4 months from the previous 2nd claim (December to April) and concentrate efforts on getting a new claim right than spend time on an MR and tribunal i think.

tifo

WabbitWabbit said:

So are you going for a MR with this 2nd application?

The question was "Can I"?

But i don't think I will as it's probably a waste of time, i'll find it hard getting points for an award, this is the general advice from here and the Shelter advisor.

Spoonie_Turtle

tifo said:

tifo said:

The advice is to make a new claim for the previously unreported conditions after seeing my GP (same as what some members say here) ..... So this is what I'll do. PIP claim 3rd time with new conditions.

I assume i can't make a new claim and submit an MR for the previous one, not that i think it will make any difference? Might as well take the time loss of 4 months from the previous 2nd claim (December to April) and concentrate efforts on getting a new claim right than spend time on an MR and tribunal i think.

For the sake of accuracy, it is possible to do an MR for an old claim whilst having a new claim open - but in this case, you should not.  Focus on the current claim, that way whatever the outcome of this third claim, you'll know you'll have done your best and sabotaged any chance you might have.

^ I rarely give absolutes as advice, especially as I don't have the experience of other posters here with a range of types of claims and outcomes, but I think we have a good enough ides of your situation by now to know that you cannot afford to be distracted by splitting your attention on the wrong things.  I'm a little surprised you've started the new claim so quickly to be honest, so you really need to just focus on the descriptors and not get sidetracked by anything else.

born_again

tifo said:

ayupmeduck said:

you don't need a diagnosis of MH or medication or specialists but it depends on why you don't have these

I have a diagnosis of depression from 2019 but this doesn't include anxiety, in hindsight it should have but it's not something brought up with my GP at that time as i had more severe conditions to deal with (still have them) and kind of never spoke to the GP about it after that. I have a tendency to leave things until 'milestones' have passed in my mind, i.e. i'll do this thing after that other thing and so on. In this way time passes and i'm behind. I know this is wrong but it's the way I am.

I've been told again and again that i need a diagnosis of anxiety and OCD in my PIP form and GP record for them to be considered in the assessment and not having these on record (and they affect me greatly) is why the assessor didn't consider them, their complaint response said the same and the Shelter advisor won't help with an MR as in her opinion i can score points in the daily living but not enough for an award but with an anxiety and OCD diagnosis and treatment i might be able to.

While having proof of a diagnosis is one thing & proves that you have the issue.
It does not get you the points.
You have to prove how you are effected in daily life as per the descriptors.

So, as you cited previously re OCD. You do not use public transport due to having to clean hands etc. (paraphrased)

How in your mind does that fit into any of the descriptors?

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

ayupmeduck said:

you don't need a diagnosis of MH or medication or specialists but it depends on why you don't have these

I've been told again and again that i need a diagnosis of anxiety and OCD in my PIP form and GP record for them to be considered in the assessment and not having these on record (and they affect me greatly) is why the assessor didn't consider them, their complaint response said the same and the Shelter advisor won't help with an MR as in her opinion i can score points in the daily living but not enough for an award but with an anxiety and OCD diagnosis and treatment i might be able to.

It's not about diagnosis and treatment in the way you may be thinking and of course they do not get you an award and indeed you could get awards without diagnosed conditions. If you have OCD and report this then they will/should consider it (and that happened by all accounts).... the problem is... with a lack of corroborative evidence they end up with nothing to pin an opinion...they have no calibration of how serious it is such as through diagnosis or treatment, consultant reports or history of you reporting the problems. In your case you didn't even mention OCD in your disability form (essentially your application) and presumably therefore also any related impact it has on task completion across all activities... so it came out of nowhere in the assessment and probably not even in relation to the most relevant activity where it could disable you.

Remember at all times.... those assessing or judging your disability need guidance and support to the correct opinions. You should start by knowing what those opinions should be...i.e. which descriptors apply... and therefore focus describing your disablements and how they play out with our without aids/support and then back that up with evidence as best you can such as documented diagnosis and medical reports.

As for new claim... this seems the most likely best course of action if you think you should qualify for PIP based on honest self assessment... but I seriously question your timing... I'm not sure how much corroborative evidence you're going to get of severe symptoms of OCD when as I understand it you're only now approaching GP regarding such. Last thing you want to do is make another half-cocked application where you find yourself chasing your own tail of failure.... go into the next application armed with a cocked gun (metaphorically speaking!) In exploring your problem with medical professionals hopefully you come to understand it better... and possibly cope with it better... but I also note subtle signs of inconsistency in relation to thoughts and symptoms described...which may take things in other directions including what underlying conditions you indeed do have and that may or may not be affecting PIP activities. 

tifo

Muttleythefrog said:

It's not about diagnosis and treatment in the way you may be thinking and of course they do not get you an award and indeed you could get awards without diagnosed conditions. If you have OCD and report this then they will/should consider it (and that happened by all accounts).... the problem is... with a lack of corroborative evidence they end up with nothing to pin an opinion...they have no calibration of how serious it is such as through diagnosis or treatment, consultant reports or history of you reporting the problems. In your case you didn't even mention OCD in your disability form (essentially your application) and presumably therefore also any related impact it has on task completion across all activities... so it came out of nowhere in the assessment and probably not even in relation to the most relevant activity where it could disable you.

Remember at all times.... those assessing or judging your disability need guidance and support to the correct opinions. You should start by knowing what those opinions should be...i.e. which descriptors apply... and therefore focus describing your disablements and how they play out with our without aids/support and then back that up with evidence as best you can such as documented diagnosis and medical reports.

As for new claim... this seems the most likely best course of action if you think you should qualify for PIP based on honest self assessment... but I seriously question your timing... I'm not sure how much corroborative evidence you're going to get of severe symptoms of OCD when as I understand it you're only now approaching GP regarding such. Last thing you want to do is make another half-cocked application where you find yourself chasing your own tail of failure.... go into the next application armed with a cocked gun (metaphorically speaking!) In exploring your problem with medical professionals hopefully you come to understand it better... and possibly cope with it better... but I also note subtle signs of inconsistency in relation to thoughts and symptoms described...which may take things in other directions including what underlying conditions you indeed do have and that may or may not be affecting PIP activities. 

"As for new claim... this seems the most likely best course of action if you think you should qualify for PIP based on honest self assessment".

This was the advice on here and by the Shelter adviser, i.e. not to waste time on existing claim as MR will most likely not change decision and to make a new claim with anxiety and OCD in the form, ensuring they will be considered which gives a chance of an award. So i'm correcting a previous mistake and there will be no new conditions added in the assessment. And of course to fill the form in better.

"Remember at all times.... those assessing or judging your disability need guidance and support to the correct opinions. You should start by knowing what those opinions should be...i.e. which descriptors apply... and therefore focus describing your disablements and how they play out with our without aids/support and then back that up with evidence as best you can such as documented diagnosis and medical reports".

This is what i aim to do. The Shelter adviser gave guidance on how i can possibly get 3 to 8 points and i made some comments to these too, posted previously.

On reddit someone posted that they answer questions with the formula time + difficulty + how it affects you daily and then expand a bit on difficulty and why. Does this sound about right?