PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

tifo

Yes, the advisor did open up during the meeting and take my input into consideration, I wouldn't say I argued with her but pointed out certain things I have experience of from my two PIP claims and my threads here.

The meeting was nearly 2 hours so she didn't rush it, though at times it was my input that extended the chat.

tifo

Muttleythefrog said:

The Shelter advisor seems to have considered things carefully and reasonably - I had concern they would not but clearly they have thought strategically about your situation and I think you have been fortunate to get this level of tailored advice. I have no reason to think their assessment is inaccurate. They clearly, like me, feel that you're doomed to fail to get sufficient points unless you have underlying OCD medical condition diagnosed etc (which you think will elevate scoring notably and I felt imperative to having a chance to do so). I'm pleased you seem to be grasping that... however I'm still not convinced you'll meet the necessary benchmarks as your activity (and ironically attempt to argue with the advisor) seem to indicate limited disablements. There is a strong theme throughout of trying to push boundaries to fit criteria but we here cannot know where the disablements lie other than based on what you report. Ultimately it's not my claim and you should know you best... you have had outstanding advice including on next course of action from members here and Shelter I would say. Good luck!

"They clearly, like me, feel that you're doomed to fail to get sufficient points unless you have underlying OCD medical condition diagnosed etc (which you think will elevate scoring notably and I felt imperative to having a chance to do so)".

The advisor thought that having the anxiety and OCD on record will increase chances of an award and this is in keeping with what I'm advised here. Without these on record she stated the points I may get with and without an understanding DM for the MR. This could be 3 or 8 points but more chance of not reaching 8 or the 0 points decision staying the same as MRs usually don't change.

"I'm still not convinced you'll meet the necessary benchmarks as your activity (and ironically attempt to argue with the advisor) seem to indicate limited disablements. There is a strong theme throughout of trying to push boundaries to fit criteria but we here cannot know where the disablements lie other than based on what you report".

I'm genuinely doing what I believe and nothing I've said here has been made up. It may not reach the high PIP threshold in DWPs and some posters' opinion but I do suffer in the way I've said.

It's the Shelter advisor's opinion that I could reach 8 points on care with anxiety and OCD on record, it's not definite as we don't know what the assessor or DM will decide. On mobility she wasn't fully convinced but there is the opportunity to try.

tifo

If I'd had an anxiety and OCD diagnosis and treatment records they would've done the MR at this stage.

The advice is to make a new claim for the previously unreported conditions after seeing my GP (same as what some members say here). I said they (DWP) will think I'm making a new claim because I've failed with this one and she replied that the assessor doesn't look at previous reports until after the assessment, and they cannot say that these are not new conditions because they were not on the previous form, were not on the GP notes and were not considered in the claim, more proven by the complaint response too.

So this is what I'll do. PIP claim 3rd time with new conditions.

tifo

I've to go see my GP anyway as the OA is now also in the right knee and today has been painful (still the same level of pain as morning and I've had my naproxen tablets). It's at a level where I need to hold the bannister to go upstairs and I only do this with painful gout.

I need a review with my GP but they don't want to give a lot of time to patients. I'll have to make 2 double appointments I think.

Muddy_Walker

Hello

Having just read this whole thread and all the advice you have been given repeatedly start making notes/answers to the questions and descriptors. You’ve admitted that you leave things to the last minute - so don’t. Make it factual and relevant and when you’ve done a first copy ask yourself “have I actually answered this or am I waffling?” You could look at it as someone asking you for help - what would you say to them if you didn’t know every single medical condition they have? If you held the purse strings for PIP would you grant it? 

Regards

MW

peteuk

tifo said:

For mobility they don't think I'll get any points but I thought I have more chance of mobility points than care but according to them I'm close to a care award by updating my medical record but not near an award for mobility. Whilst my gout and osteoarthritis (OA) affect me they don't think it's in the majority. BUT this is by taking account of severe gout days only and not the moderate or mild days. Much like what the assessor did.

I say I should score (b) 4 points for can move 50 to 200 metres with mild gout/OA or (c) 8 points for can move 20 to 50 metres when moderate gout/OA or (e) 12 points for can move 1 to 20 metres when severe gout. Taking into account OA which is mild at the moment but occasionally moderate I'd realistically think I'd get max 8 points in mobility for gout but 4 points is likely. I don't use an aid, eg walking stick so I  can't ask for 10 points for (d). Saying all this, I want to argue the maximum points I can get.

If your gout/OA is not the majority of the time, you will not score anything.   Your logic is floored, and therefore until you change the way you think you will again come across in assessment as not genuine.   You can either walk 50 - 200 meters, or 20 to 50 meters or 1 to 20 meters the majority of the time, your score doesnt change, nor does your ability to do so in PIP, its the majority of time.  So if you can walk 200 meters for 28 weeks, 50 meters for 12 weeks and 10 meters for 12 weeks, then PIP will say you can walk 200 meters.

tifo said:

There is the possibility of some points for planning/following a journey but again this is with a anxiety/ocd diagnosis and treatment as it's kind of related with engaging with people.

The Shelter lady didn't consider how I am compared to an able person and I brought this up, saying I can walk by limping with moderate gout or OA but it takes me double the time and I have to rest after a while.

teaselMay

tifo said:

I've to go see my GP anyway as the OA is now also in the right knee and today has been painful (still the same level of pain as morning and I've had my naproxen tablets). It's at a level where I need to hold the bannister to go upstairs and I only do this with painful gout.

I need a review with my GP but they don't want to give a lot of time to patients. I'll have to make 2 double appointments I think.

Tifo I think you need to recalibrate your idea of what a disabling level of arthritis is. Although you've a list of diagnoses you're a healthy middle aged person, try to enjoy that rather than putting all of your energy into battling for something that you don't appear to be entitled to.

ayupmeduck

tifo said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

This is in response to shopping when in reality nobody, not even able bodied people, walk around a supermarket non stop for 30 mins, everyone pauses and stops at many stages in their shop to browse or pick up items.

Just on this note - it is based on how long in total a person can walk for.  So pauses to then continue don't count as stopping, it's when they can no longer continue that is deemed to be stopping.  (I'm not with it enough to comment on any other part of it, but just so you know where they're coming from with that bit specifically.)

"You drive a car …". I said I drive when i can which is not always.

How often is 'not always'?  How often would you be able to

"Just on this note - it is based on how long in total a person can walk for.  So pauses to then continue don't count as stopping, it's when they can no longer continue that is deemed to be stopping".

I understand what you say but the decision says "you report being able to walk 30 minutes without stopping at a normal pace" and if this has a different meaning isn't that unfair? To me standing still (pausing) is stopping even if to catch my breath for a minute. If I do 10 of these, a minute each, and walk for 20 mins in total that's not really walking without stopping for 30 mins. I think ....

"How often is 'not always'?  How often would you be able to".

I drive more than i don't over the year but if i can't drive because of gout or arthritis then that doesn't mean i normally would be driving at that time, like most people i drive when i need to and sometimes need to but can't. Even able bodied people don't drive all the time and of course disabled people do drive and even the Motability scheme helps them to. So, in my opinion, being able to drive doesn't mean everything is OK all the time which is what the decision is kind of saying.

a 1 minute break/rest is not a pause and if you drive regularly especially if a manual car, it goes against you, regular doesn't have to be 4-5 times each week either. If you arthritis/gout doesn't affect you the majority of days then it doesn't count.

ayupmeduck

tifo said:

peteuk said:

tifo said:

Some extracts from the decision notes:

Mostly it's a repeat of the descriptors and then "I decided that you can manage these activities".

"You drive a car which requires a reasonable level of upper and lower limb strength, grip, range of movement and core stability as well as competent level of reading ability, memory, cognition and concentration". I said I drive when i can which is not always.

"When engaging with the assessor you coped well, was not anxious or withdrawn and did not need any prompting". I tried to answer the best i could and many times asked her to repeat the question.

"There is no evidence of any prescribed anxiolytic medication and you do not receive any specialist input for your mental health. Your functional history report shows no abandoned journeys and no panic attacks leaving the home. Your assessment showed you have no cognitive impairments and you possess adequate memory and concentration. During the assessment you coped well with adequate rapport. You communicated clearly and effectively without the need for prompting and with no signs of overwhelming psychological distress". Basically saying i'm on no anxiety medication and have no mental or memory issues. Nothing about my OCD and how i said it affects me in terms of going out (i don't most times) and especially how i am at home and in public spaces and the routines that i have to do with a lot of things.

"The functional history report shows you report being able to walk 30 minutes without stopping at a normal pace 4 or 5 times a week which is the majority of days". This is in response to shopping when in reality nobody, not even able bodied people, walk around a supermarket non stop for 30 mins, everyone pauses and stops at many stages in their shop to browse or pick up items. And many times it's not 30 minutes of non stop walking in a shop as it might be a quick 5 minutes in and out. It does not specifically state 'shopping' but i know it is because the assessor said i can walk around a supermarket for 30 minutes and it was also stated in my previous claim.

"You only take analgesia for your severe gout flare ups, you report flare ups 12 times a year and there is no evidence of any specialist input. I decided you can stand and then move more than 200 metres". Obviously i can't with severe or mild gout and i don't take medication only for a flare up, i'm on constant medication for it which helps but doesn't stop it.

There's no mention of how osteoarthritis is affecting me (stiff, painful left knees but more in the left) in terms of movement or bathing, which i mentioned i can't bend it to wash my lower legs or lift my feet to wash them. The assessor specifically asked this. The same applies to dressing/undressing. With gout movement and bathing has a different difficulty. My GP said use the same medication for osteoarthritis as for gout.

Lots of other things were asked and replied to and there's no mention here. I'll see in the assessment report when i receive it.

I have said this multiple times - if the assessor can write a stronger explanation for no points in an activity, over a scoring description they will.

“You drive a car which requires a reasonable level of upper and lower limb strength, grip, range of movement and core stability as well as competent level of reading ability, memory, cognition and concentration". I said I drive when i can which is not always.”

No where in that statement does it say always - what stops you from driving gout or arthritis

“You only take analgesia for your severe gout flare ups, you report flare ups 12 times a year and there is no evidence of any specialist input.”

So now put 1+1 together =. Your gout doesn't stop you from driving for the majority of the time. 

I will put this in simplest terms - little or no medication, no specialist care, no ongoing treatment or surgical plan will provide them with the ammunition to write a stronger no point descriptor. 

Your gout doesnt stop you from bathing THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME - as it severely flares up 12 times a year. You take analgesia at this point, there is no prescription of medication for gout and no specialist input.   I dont doubt your gout hurts all the time, I dont doubt you struggle getting in and out of the bath, but the weight of the evidence is this doesnt effect your life enough to score in a PIP assessment. 

Interestingly there is no mention of the length of time of these flare ups. Are they a day, a week, longer or shorter (on average) again this will indicate the majority of the time.  Eg it flares up lasts three weeks, I get a week or two off before it flares again suggests the majority of the time.  But in your own words it’s not an issue at present and hasn’t flared up as much over the last year. 

The assessor asked and my reply was about 12 times a year and 3 days for severe, 4 days for moderate and it goes down to mild and goes away in 2 weeks. But i don't always get severe or moderate and many times it's mild which affects me for several days and this is how it's been over the year. So it wasn't 12 times a year severe but 12 episodes on average with a mixture of severe, moderate and mild. If that makes sense. 

This sounds like a headache to assess, I'd hate to be assessing this. So 48 days a year only (12x4) or 168 (14 x 12), neither majority of the time.

ayupmeduck

sheramber said:

tifo said:

teaselMay said:

If you completed the forms accurately you will have already documented any effect of any of condition on your ability to do things.

Now i know I didn't  ..... but i did try and respond to the assessment questions accurately.

I'll go through my form and check questions and answers compared to what the assessment report says, but i do know that i said 'No' to Q6 'Washing and Bathing' but i am affected in response to the questions asked at the assessment so should have ticked 'Yes' and wrote what i said. When i was completing it i just didn't equate the problems i sometimes have with washing my lower limbs with the question, though i did answer it as such in the assessment and the decision has referred to the problems i mentioned. The form refers to 'getting in and out of the bath or shower' and 'using the bath or shower' so in my mind I said no issues with those.

I think i get brain fog when completing long forms under pressure to get them right. I get anxious and nervous and worked up. I seem to be getting confused easily. This is not to throw in more issues into this thread, these are all to do with the anxiety and depression i suffer from including OCD which also gets me worked up at home and outside and i've been like this for many years. I have memory recall issues too and have been to my GP about it, who did tests like say numbers backwards or repeat addresses etc and said "you're fine". An example i gave him was that a young man i've known all my life (family friends) came to drop something off and for the life of me i couldn't remember his name! When asked by family who it was i could not remember his name at all. It came to me some days later. Even yesterday i saw a friend around 1pm and he we spoke about a few things. I later messaged him saying "haven't seen you for some days how are you" and he replied "you've no slept, you saw me earlier today and we spoke about [the things]. I couldn't remember for some minutes then it came to me. For this one i can post a screenshot of my messages with him?

. I have memory recall issues too and have been to my GP about it

You don’t seem to have any problem recalling what was said at your assessment. 

The fact that the GP has said "you're fine" and you can recall and answer the assessment without support will mean a big fat NO to having memory/cognition issues. 

An we have already established that your arthritis/gout doesn't affect you the majority of the time so having issues when it does doesn't mean much