PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

Thanks, i hear you .....

"Make new claim for PIP adding this condition that has been documented/explored for more than 3 months".

But do not interpret that as me saying apply in 3 months time after you first spoke to GP! This game should be driven by evidence not time other than the basic time criteria for PIP (condition for 3 months, expectation another 9). And primarily you should be seeking help... after all if you're going to claim this illness is causing you severe disablement in daily life then the expectation is you would primarily be focussed on getting help for it... not using it to bolster a benefit claim. It's with seeking that help that you explore your problems, understand them better, get support, advice, help and indeed better documentation of the problems. Significantly in your case understanding your issues better can only be sensible on several fronts including in order to explain your difficulties in relation to disablement which has obviously been a problem thus far as you seem to have overlooked them or their impact.

As you yourself point out there is history of not being believed... so the backing of medical professionals in your claim at least with consistent coherent evidence seems imperative.. as they may not believe you but they'll struggle not to believe them even if in their reports they are significantly just repeating what you've said in consultations and/or are opinions based on such. If you are receiving treatment then that in itself is evidence medical professionals consider your problem credible enough to treat. 

And do not ignore the advice to assess yourself honestly. I do not suggest applying for PIP again if you do not think you qualify... regardless of any timelines or diagnoses or evidence. As others have suggested you have this habit of reading everything, accepting advice and then selectively picking the bits you liked (sometimes out of context) and considering that was the advice. I suspect that's why you ended up applying for PIP in the first place and it looks also to be true regarding the recent Shelter advisor who lacked the bullets to fire your gun and so directed you back to the ammunition dump. Don't repeat errors of past or the thread will simply be renamed again and around we go again.

Muddy_Walker

Well I now know what not to do!!!!!! To everyone who has posted great advice and in depth thank you! I agree that Tifo has made it a mission to get PIP at any cost. Sadly only paying attention to the bits they want to.
I am in the process of claiming PIP and waiting for a tribunal date (not going into details) …… and it is a looooooong process so patience is a huge requirement.

Take care xxx

sammyjammy

tifo said:

sheramber said:

They did say he would be successful but that is what he has chosen hear.  

Who said this?

I think thats a mistype, he originally claimed as a work coach in the job centre mentioned PIP, OP has taken this as he is entitled to it and a formal directive to apply rather than a random comment by someone with on knowledge of OP or PIP.

Spoonie_Turtle

tifo said:

Muttleythefrog said:

You're one of the posters who've suggested a new claim and you've given good advice ....

I have made it very clear..... that a new claim if you honestly consider yourself to meet criteria for a successful PIP award (no evidence you've done that at all even in your recent analysis talking about descriptors!) is perhaps the best course of action.... however I have also made it very clear why and this raises why I say this seems far too early to make new claim. The idea is not that you suddenly have OCD on your form or have met your GP about it.... the idea is you over the coming months seek professional support for your claimed problem that leads to a basis of evidence to substantiate any claimed significant disablements (it hopefully would also lead to better understanding of your condition which you evidently lack as your last application shows.. and possible treatment or other help... the idea being from a PIP perspective and health perspective you could be advantaged!). Then apply armed with the backing of far more than a simple diagnosis or record of a GP appointment... with perhaps mental health specialist reports that detail your problems and their assessment.  That PIP application then has solid professional basis for you to go into your form or an assessment explaining how your OCD is disabling and enables an assessor or Decision Maker to pin their useful opinions on. What you lacked in the last application wasn't a diagnosis although that was inclusive... it was a complete absence of any evidence to back claimed OCD related disablements.... a diagnosis is just one element of evidence but the high benchmarks of disability for PIP especially in activities you suggest severe disablement are likely to require a far better basis to impress an assessor or DM. This is particular relevant for mental illnesses because one person's illness may be relatively unaffecting of daily life yet another with same diagnosis may be high disabled by it.... and if all you've engaged is your GP they may think it isn't serious or it's too early to make any judgement on how disabling it could be... they may even point to the idea you've had no treatment or specialist input so it's unlikely to be significant a problem. 

I myself had problems getting DLA not because of a lack of diagnosis but because of a lack of evidence of how seriously that affected me... and while I described it they simply either didn't believe me or lacked the supporting evidence to believe me. Once I started getting psychiatric reports and in particular CPN assessments the ball game changed.... I could explain my disablements and point to professional documentation detailing corroboratory facts or opinion. Like guiding a supermarket trolley it then makes it hard for assessors or DMs to ignore the problems or discount what you say... and a tribunal surely would not if it is consistent with professional documentation. You unfortunately seem to keep thinking they did not consider OCD in your assessment/decision... they did.... but they lacked any supporting evidence of the condition and its severity.. so they could not deliver any reliable opinion on the severe disabling effects... you are heading into risking exactly the same problem if all you take forward is reference and perhaps a casual GP diagnosis or similar.

So you have completely ignored my advice and that of others..... and I suggest "I think i did that before and definitely after the Shelter appointment, on which descriptors are possible" also is completely out with the advice I gave which is to honestly assess yourself as to what descriptors do apply....not could... may.... I mean it's possible we'll both could go to the moon... but realistically we won't. What descriptors do you meet...page 36 and still the best we have is what you think you could score on.... this aimless vision is why you are not hitting the dart board perhaps.... knowing what the realistic outcome should be enables you to make clear cases, arguments and evidence selection to fit.... guiding others to conclude the same as you did.

Another poster raised a key point.... if you happened to be successful in this claim made at this early stage of OCD investigation... there is every chance that award would be particularly short given that a key reason many awards are short is the expectation of imminent investigation and treatment of conditions that then may change in disablement. 

In simple... my advice is:
1. Seek medical help for your claimed problem (OCD) and see how that plays out in terms of getting help you need, diagnosis, better understanding of condition, treatment.
2. Honestly appraise against PIP criteria to see if award should be made - if yes then 3
3. When/if in a position where the problem has been explored there is suitably supportive professional documentation that at least verifies your claimed problems and describes your difficulties then 4
4. Make new claim for PIP adding this condition that has been documented/explored for more than 3 months... describe along with any other conditions the disabling impacts relevant to the descriptors applicable to you.. pointing to (included) supporting evidence as suitable.

This advice in my opinion gives greatest chance of improving your wellbeing (in relation to anxiety disorders - your focus here is on PIP but for most people with any health problem the usual advice is seek appropriate medical help and this is what a 3rd party would expect if one had a serious problem) and chances of a successful PIP claim of suitable level and respectable length.

"there is every chance that award would be particularly short given that a key reason many awards are short is the expectation of imminent investigation and treatment of conditions".

To be honest i'm not expecting any award to be long term (5 years or more) and i expect it to be 2 years or 18 months which i'd be happy with and could work on for the review. So, if they award 18 months and say we'll review after treatments i'd see that as a success. The shortest they could award is the 9 months they expect disablement to continue.

So if you stop and think about it, what really is the point of wasting years (so far) of your life in pursuing that?  - rhetorical at this point, for you to think about.


It is a shame that a well-meaning but unqualified worker at the jobcentre made a remark years ago which you latched onto and set you down this path of steadfastly pursuing until you get the intended result.  I would respectfully suggest that this comes up at an appropriate point in the course of seeking help, because perseverating like this is probably not helpful to you and may be related to your other symptoms (MAY, obviously I don't know, but the health professional you see needs to have all of the information to make an accurate assessment).


Also you mention seeing if you should have longer to fill in the claim form, but the extension they give is only two weeks - most likely nothing more will have happened for you in that extra time than will have within a month.

However, hopefully one good thing has come out of all of this - you realising that you should seek help, and I hope it is helpful for you and ultimately makes your life a bit easier (which is the goal of seeking medical help).

tifo

Coming back to this as my PIP telephone assessment is next week. This appt is nearly 3 months from submitting the application online.

I submitted the online PIP application in May and included my mental health issues this time. I've since had 1 triage assessment and 2 NHS CBT appointments with the next appt in mid August. There's 12 sessions with each a few weeks apart so will take approximately 6 months. They narrowed the issues down to therapy for 1 or 2 (most severe first) and another referral after this for other issues. In these sessions we're concentrating on (social) anxiety and depression and they'll refer me for the OCD after these. But there's overlap between issues so a few will be treated. At the moment i'm scoring 57 out of 72 on whatever scale the therapist is using, which is seen as severe.

I submitted the CBT letters, emails, texts etc to maximus so they have these as well, the online application was submitted in May and CBT started in June. I can submit more evidence online.

Helpful comments welcome and appreciated.

fuzzzzy

I have read your thread and it feels like your main motivation to see your GP for anxiety and OCD is to get it on the record for more PIP points rather than to actually improve things for yourself.

It seems fairly well established that having a positive attitude is good for your physical and mental health.

I do sometimes wonder if people focussing so much on ailments and how they affect them in order to get points for PIP or to enable the payment of a higher rate of benefit actually ends up making them more ill in the long run or impedes them getting any better.

tifo

fuzzzzy said:

I have read your thread and it feels like your main motivation to see your GP for anxiety and OCD is to get it on the record for more PIP points rather than to actually improve things for yourself.

It seems fairly well established that having a positive attitude is good for your physical and mental health.

I do sometimes wonder if people focussing so much on ailments and how they affect them in order to get points for PIP or to enable the payment of a higher rate of benefit actually ends up making them more ill in the long run or impedes them getting any better.

"I have read your thread and it feels like your main motivation to see your GP for anxiety and OCD is to get it on the record for more PIP points rather than to actually improve things for yourself".

No, this is not true. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression in 2019 by my GP who gave self help referral, I had my eye problems in 2018, i've had gout since 2008, i've not claimed PIP before 2021 and did so for the first time following my WCA from the JC when my work coach suggested it. I didn't mention anxiety and depression in my first PIP form of 2021, neither did I in the second PIP form this year. We discussed anxiety, depression and OCD in the assessment and it became apparent I should get help. I've struggled with it myself. I had to make the current PIP application because the assessors would not consider mental health without it being on the PIP form.

So, i've had anxiety, depression, OCD, gout well before my first 2 PIP applications but did not mention mental health. I'm not getting treatment for PIP points, i'm getting it for myself. I've had the same physical issues for many years and with ongoing treatment including hospital inpatient for 7 years now and even that is not enough for any PIP points, so they don't really care about seeing a GP I think.

fuzzzzy

tifo said:

fuzzzzy said:

I have read your thread and it feels like your main motivation to see your GP for anxiety and OCD is to get it on the record for more PIP points rather than to actually improve things for yourself.

It seems fairly well established that having a positive attitude is good for your physical and mental health.

I do sometimes wonder if people focussing so much on ailments and how they affect them in order to get points for PIP or to enable the payment of a higher rate of benefit actually ends up making them more ill in the long run or impedes them getting any better.

"I have read your thread and it feels like your main motivation to see your GP for anxiety and OCD is to get it on the record for more PIP points rather than to actually improve things for yourself".

No, this is not true. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression in 2019 by my GP who gave self help referral, I had my eye problems in 2018, i've had gout since 2008, i've not claimed PIP before 2021 and did so for the first time following my WCA from the JC when my work coach suggested it. I didn't mention anxiety and depression in my first PIP form of 2021, neither did I in the second PIP form this year. We discussed anxiety, depression and OCD in the assessment and it became apparent I should get help. I've struggled with it myself. I had to make the current PIP application because the assessors would not consider mental health without it being on the PIP form.

So, i've had anxiety, depression, OCD, gout well before my first 2 PIP applications but did not mention mental health. I'm not getting treatment for PIP points, i'm getting it for myself. I've had the same physical issues for many years and with ongoing treatment including hospital inpatient for 7 years now and even that is not enough for any PIP points, so they don't really care about seeing a GP I think.

I am not questioning that you may have had these mental health problems for some time, just that this obsession with getting PIP is maybe not helping in improving your mental health. Maybe give yourself some time to engage with the treatments and see if things improve.

Spoonie_Turtle

fuzzzzy said:

…
It seems fairly well established that having a positive attitude is good for your physical and mental health.

I do sometimes wonder if people focussing so much on ailments and how they affect them in order to get points for PIP or to enable the payment of a higher rate of benefit actually ends up making them more ill in the long run or impedes them getting any better.

Not commenting on this particular case but in general it's the stress and the effort of going through the process that makes us more ill.  And yes focusing on how much we've lost and how limited our lives are is extremely demoralising, it forces us to confront the emotional pain in a way we probably wouldn't normally because we've had to accept things are the way they are and get on with living our lives the way we have to.  But if we need to apply for financial support to live then we have no choice. 

You make a good point but it indicates the system needs to change, it's almost never a reflection on the individuals having to go through the process.


Edit: good advice about giving any treatment time to have any effect.  The PIP assessor will undoubtedly take that into account when deciding any potential award length.

WabbitWabbit

I think that this thread has given you lots of help and advice. I can’t see what anyone else can add.
It would be a good idea if you read it all again.
Just remember it is not what is wrong with you, which once again is not how PIP works.
I am surprised that your GP has not diagnosed OCD before as it would be so obvious when visiting the surgery.