Rejecting new car due to dealer misfuel

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  • sevenhills
    sevenhills Posts: 5,927 Forumite
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    edited 18 January at 11:29AM
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    99iainb said:
    The other injectors are currently functioning as required"
    Goudy said:

    I would bet the others are in or near a similar state, particularly number three, as the inner cylinders tend to run a bit hotter and they tend to get up to peak compression a little faster.

    So a fault with one injector and the others running normally would rule out a tank of diesel?

  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,750 Forumite
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    But wouldn't that knacker all of the injectors? Or was injector 2 already weakened and the alleged contamination has exposed the fault?
  • Goudy
    Goudy Posts: 1,545 Forumite
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    edited 18 January at 12:37PM
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    Herzlos said:
    But wouldn't that knacker all of the injectors? Or was injector 2 already weakened and the alleged contamination has exposed the fault?
    Could be that one was looser in the rail anyway.
    Petrol injectors are generally push fit into the cylinder head.
    These are direct injectors, so reach directly into the combustion chambers rather than into the inlet manifold or inlet track, which might explain something when it comes to blowing back on them.

    If they were in the inlet track or manifold, they'd be little compression pressure on them as the intake valve would be closed on any up stroke.

    Then the fuel rail pushes over the top and is bolted down to hold them all in place.
    This should hold them down well enough under normal conditions.

    The rubber on the fuel rail end looks suspect, it's not a normal rip or tear from a poor fit, it's fluffed up like a old pencil eraser that's been repeated dragged back and forth, it's had this sort of repeated force on it for sure.

    Add that to that the obvious blow by evidence, that injector has been moving repeatedly as the engine has been ran.

    Why? It was either loose to start with, came loose or something was pushing it out.

    As the car is new, all the bolts would have generally been torqued down by computer control torque wrenches and it's hard to slip up with them as they alarm out if they fail the to complete the process properly.
    Such a new car is unlikely to have had any work on it and someone has left it loose, but it's not impossible I suppose. 

    You have to start thinking something may have pushed it out and look for evidence of that.

    The soot looks like diesel soot to me and not a natural carbon build up.
    I would have like to feel and smell it to be sure as diesel and diesel soot has a certain greasy feel and certain smell.

    If it did have some diesel in it, some of that will get burnt if the petrol mix had been high enough, which it looks likely if it ran that far.
    But it wouldn't have burnt fully like diesel should (under great pressure injected into red hot, compressed air), there would be diesel left in there.

    As for the rest of unburnt diesel the piston would have tried and failed to keep compressing it and as we know, it doesn't compress well.

    Perhaps that cylinders injector was a weakest point, is this a 3 cylinder and this would be the middle, hotter cylinder?

    Or was it just the first to go, if it kept on running perhaps the others would have follow suit sooner or later.
  • sevenhills
    sevenhills Posts: 5,927 Forumite
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    Goudy said:

    The soot looks like diesel soot to me and not a natural carbon build up.
    I would have like to feel and smell it to be sure as diesel and diesel soot has a certain greasy feel and certain smell.


    The dealer would have explained that to the OP, but as she claims to know nothing about cars, that obviously went over her head.
    But that brings us back to where the diesel came from, if the car was running normally.
    If it's just an injector that needs replacing, not the end of the world, £2k?
  • facade
    facade Posts: 7,066 Forumite
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    edited 18 January at 1:22PM
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    The combustion seal is missing (apparently you need a ridiculously expensive special tool- a cone and a tapered sizing funnel to fit and size a new one or it will leak....), which is why it has been blowing by the injector. Whether there never was one, or it has been destroyed by the contaminated fuel I can't guess.

    I wouldn't touch a direct injection car tbh, they are like the dreaded wet belt, great in theory but far too likely to have expensive failures in practice.



    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science ;))
  • m0bov
    m0bov Posts: 2,540 Forumite
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    Its time to go to the next stage, how are you paying for the car? Is it on finance (sorry if you already answered). Y

    Send a letter to the supplying dealer informing them of the rejecting as the faulty is deemed present at the time of sale and they have been given opportunity to repair. Give them 7 days, copy this to any finance company. (google for templates).

    Then, if they refuse a refund, go to small claims court, where you will need your evidence, paid for, to add to your claim. You will need to claim this back if you win.

    Its all "balance of probability", its not criminal where is "beyond reasonable doubt". If all they have is one photo of a dodgy injector and a claim of diesel, it needs to outweigh your evidence.

    Do you have car hire? If you need a car, you can hire one and then claim that back, if you win.

    Keep your letters factual, to the point, don't get fobbed off, be sure of your rights and terms you are using.

    I got a new engine when my Skoda threw its timing chain, they tried all sorts to blame me, but stick at it.

    Check forums for your car, other reports? Known issues?


    Good luck!
  • 99iainb
    99iainb Posts: 94 Forumite
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    Perhaps that cylinders injector was a weakest point, is this a 3 cylinder and this would be the middle, hotter cylinder?

    Or was it just the first to go, if it kept on running perhaps the others would have follow suit sooner or later.
    Thanks for the reply, very interesting. Bayon has 3 cylinder's
  • 99iainb
    99iainb Posts: 94 Forumite
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    Goudy said:

    The soot looks like diesel soot to me and not a natural carbon build up.
    I would have like to feel and smell it to be sure as diesel and diesel soot has a certain greasy feel and certain smell.


    The dealer would have explained that to the OP, but as she claims to know nothing about cars, that obviously went over her head.
    But that brings us back to where the diesel came from, if the car was running normally.
    If it's just an injector that needs replacing, not the end of the world, £2k?
    She sir is a he sir!  :D

    Motoring is not my thing, I'm more of an IT bloke, when I start talking technical to people most glaze over. 

    You're right, in the grand scheme of things it's not the end of the world, but I have not misfueled this, I'm currently up to £1,250 in repair bills and I've lost the warranty on the fuel system after 6 days of ownership. And who knows what that may cost me in the future. 

    It's a real sickener on what should be a happy experience and a prospect of trouble free motoring for the next 5 years... not to mention my missed holiday!
  • 99iainb
    99iainb Posts: 94 Forumite
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    edited 18 January at 2:51PM
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    m0bov said:
    Its time to go to the next stage, how are you paying for the car? Is it on finance (sorry if you already answered). Y

    Send a letter to the supplying dealer informing them of the rejecting as the faulty is deemed present at the time of sale and they have been given opportunity to repair. Give them 7 days, copy this to any finance company. (google for templates).

    Then, if they refuse a refund, go to small claims court, where you will need your evidence, paid for, to add to your claim. You will need to claim this back if you win.

    Its all "balance of probability", its not criminal where is "beyond reasonable doubt". If all they have is one photo of a dodgy injector and a claim of diesel, it needs to outweigh your evidence.

    Do you have car hire? If you need a car, you can hire one and then claim that back, if you win.

    Keep your letters factual, to the point, don't get fobbed off, be sure of your rights and terms you are using.

    I got a new engine when my Skoda threw its timing chain, they tried all sorts to blame me, but stick at it.

    Check forums for your car, other reports? Known issues?


    Good luck!
    I bought with a mixture of bank transfer and finance, I have since paid the finance off.

    Letter of rejection went off yesterday

    I am in the process of building up my evidence

    I did have a hire car for a week, that's gone back now. Fortunately I still have my old car!

    I'm going to stick at it, I have to! A nice result for you though, but it does take it out of you. I feel it's going to be a battle of attrition.
  • Goudy
    Goudy Posts: 1,545 Forumite
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    Goudy said:

    The soot looks like diesel soot to me and not a natural carbon build up.
    I would have like to feel and smell it to be sure as diesel and diesel soot has a certain greasy feel and certain smell.


    The dealer would have explained that to the OP, but as she claims to know nothing about cars, that obviously went over her head.
    But that brings us back to where the diesel came from, if the car was running normally.
    If it's just an injector that needs replacing, not the end of the world, £2k?
    Yes, that is the question.

    It ran from the dealers forecourt on whatever was in the tank from delivery.
    The OP then filled up with 32+ litres when the trip said 64 miles range left.
    It's a 40 litre tank so that means there was less than 8 litres in there to start, probably a little less.

    If those 8 litres were mainly diesel, it would have never left the dealers forecourt.

    Again, if those 8 litres of fuel was made up of enough diesel to contaminate the 32+ litres of petrol they put in, it might have made it halfway to the petrol station, at best.

    So what's left?
    It's picked up a mix of petrol and diesel when it was filled with those 32+ litres and it was just at the right mix to get 260 miles out of it before the damage became apparent.

    The petrol station haven't said they have any other reported issues (would they if they tell if they knew?)
    But if everyone needs to wait 200 to 300 miles to find out, would they really know?

    I know it's a bad situation but if it was diesel in there and it was having so much trouble with it, that trouble could have been far worse.
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