Pub barring

sheramber

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Pollycat said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

GingerTim said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Hi

Just a quick query about the legal, and practical, position I'm in after a visit to my High Street pub.

So I went to this pub a couple of nights ago, reasonably merry when I went. I went to the bar and ordered a cider. There were 3 women next to me and I had a quick chat about their drink.

I went and sat down and finished the drink and returned to the bar to order another.

Utterly unexpectedly the manager said I 'said something sexual' without elaborating and barred me for 6 months.  She didn’t think  even tell me what I was alleged to have said and to whom.

I didn’t say anything of the kind. I know all pubs are private premises but it seems to me that she took someone else's word and determined a course of action without even asking me anything.

I feel it was a little misandric. How can it be acceptable to bar someone without any elaboration?

Just interested out of curiosity that I may be being discriminated against.

Thanks

If you were already 'reasonably merry' when you arrived at the pub surely it's entirely conceivable you may have said something untoward?

I would not expect the manager to identify the complainant, particularly if it was a woman, for quite obvious reasons.

Misandric? Give over.

I know who the complainant was as I only talked to one group of girls at the bar about the colour of their drinks.

I'm  always polite and some weird sexual comment isn't me. 

In hindsight I should have found them and checked the veracity of what they said.

Is it possible I said something I don't  recall, probably  less than 1% chance as I was lucid. I was cycling!

Misandry, see the above thought experiment. I've had it done before, so you're wrong.

Thanks for the input.

Cycling!
Whilst being merry?
Really?
The height of stupidity.
Think total lucky that the worst thing that happened to you was you got battered from a pub for 6 months.

As for the 'in hindsight I should have found them...', I think you're very lucky that your hindsight didn't kick in.

3 pints for a 6ft 4 inch fit guy is utterly irrelevant to cycling safety, with all due respect. I've thought about it now and I don't think my comment was anything to do with the girls at the bar.

I think she mis-heard me at my So uotable. It was extremely  loud in there. Just annoying I had no explanation.

 it seems to me that she took someone else's word and determined a course of action without even asking me anything.

So you jumped to the conclusion thst the females had complained and she had acted unfairly on that.

Now you admit she may have overhead something at the table.  

Pollycat

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Pollycat said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

GingerTim said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Hi

Just a quick query about the legal, and practical, position I'm in after a visit to my High Street pub.

So I went to this pub a couple of nights ago, reasonably merry when I went. I went to the bar and ordered a cider. There were 3 women next to me and I had a quick chat about their drink.

I went and sat down and finished the drink and returned to the bar to order another.

Utterly unexpectedly the manager said I 'said something sexual' without elaborating and barred me for 6 months.  She didn’t think  even tell me what I was alleged to have said and to whom.

I didn’t say anything of the kind. I know all pubs are private premises but it seems to me that she took someone else's word and determined a course of action without even asking me anything.

I feel it was a little misandric. How can it be acceptable to bar someone without any elaboration?

Just interested out of curiosity that I may be being discriminated against.

Thanks

If you were already 'reasonably merry' when you arrived at the pub surely it's entirely conceivable you may have said something untoward?

I would not expect the manager to identify the complainant, particularly if it was a woman, for quite obvious reasons.

Misandric? Give over.

I know who the complainant was as I only talked to one group of girls at the bar about the colour of their drinks.

I'm  always polite and some weird sexual comment isn't me. 

In hindsight I should have found them and checked the veracity of what they said.

Is it possible I said something I don't  recall, probably  less than 1% chance as I was lucid. I was cycling!

Misandry, see the above thought experiment. I've had it done before, so you're wrong.

Thanks for the input.

Cycling!
Whilst being merry?
Really?
The height of stupidity.
Think total lucky that the worst thing that happened to you was you got battered from a pub for 6 months.

As for the 'in hindsight I should have found them...', I think you're very lucky that your hindsight didn't kick in.

3 pints for a 6ft 4 inch fit guy is utterly irrelevant to cycling safety, with all due respect. I've thought about it now and I don't think my comment was anything to do with the girls at the bar.

I think she mis-heard me at my table. It was extremely  loud in there. Just annoying I had no explanation.

You did have an explanation.

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Utterly unexpectedly the manager said I 'said something sexual' without elaborating and barred me for 6 months.  She didn’t think  even tell me what I was alleged to have said and to whom.

Why do you think the manager should have elaborated?

eskbanker

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Brie said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

user1977 said:

Misandric? Well, yes I suppose you could pursue a case for sex discrimination. I expect the vast majority of customers they’ve barred for sexually harassing other customers are men - that seems like cast iron evidence in your favour. 

Let us know when the court case reaches the local paper…


Seriously though, they don’t need to give you any detail or reason. What made you think they would, given you already seem to accept the principle?

Of course I'm  not going to pursue it. It's a philosophical question. 

It was a false allegation and if ny gender was part of the decision making process, that is illegal.

Men are routinely mis-believed and metaphorically emasculated. I'm  an individual not all men. 

Thanks

Misandry, like sexual harassment, are very hard things to prove as it's so very often a he said/ she said situation.  I know that with sexual harassment your very innocent comment may be taken in a completely opposite way by the person you are addressing.  Add a bit of alcohol, possibly on their side in addition to yours, and misconstruing, taking 2 + 2 and making 5, are all very easy to have happen.   If you're bothered at all then do go back to the pub when it's quiet and ask what the problem was to ensure you can avoid it being repeated.  

And - fyi for you and others - you cannot be discriminated against because of your gender as gender is not a protected characteristic.  Sex discrimination (which may or may not have been what has happened here) is illegal as a person's sex a protected characteristic.   Many people use the word gender when they should be using the word sex or believe that gender should be considered a protected characteristic but it is not in UK law.

Discrimination: your rights: Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics') - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Everyone has turned being offended into a cottage industry. It's  hard to have a laugh with people anymore. Society has changed for the worse imo.

They really haven't  What's changed - for the better - is that bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments are being called out for what they are: pathetic, unfunny and unnecessary.  It's not hard to have a laugh with people at all, unless one's the sort of person that makes bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments that most reasonable, decent people find tragically embarrassing at best, and unwelcome at worst.  The only people unhappy with this progress are those that want a free pass to make bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments without consequence and get upset when there are consequences.  Those people generally make more noise and a 'cottage industry' out of things than those being genuinely offended.  It's why they're usually found at comedy gigs from the 1970s, shouting at GB News or telling anyone who'll listen that they're being silenced.

....while describing themselves as 'anti woke' of course!

Aylesbury_Duck

eskbanker said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Brie said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

user1977 said:

Misandric? Well, yes I suppose you could pursue a case for sex discrimination. I expect the vast majority of customers they’ve barred for sexually harassing other customers are men - that seems like cast iron evidence in your favour. 

Let us know when the court case reaches the local paper…


Seriously though, they don’t need to give you any detail or reason. What made you think they would, given you already seem to accept the principle?

Of course I'm  not going to pursue it. It's a philosophical question. 

It was a false allegation and if ny gender was part of the decision making process, that is illegal.

Men are routinely mis-believed and metaphorically emasculated. I'm  an individual not all men. 

Thanks

Misandry, like sexual harassment, are very hard things to prove as it's so very often a he said/ she said situation.  I know that with sexual harassment your very innocent comment may be taken in a completely opposite way by the person you are addressing.  Add a bit of alcohol, possibly on their side in addition to yours, and misconstruing, taking 2 + 2 and making 5, are all very easy to have happen.   If you're bothered at all then do go back to the pub when it's quiet and ask what the problem was to ensure you can avoid it being repeated.  

And - fyi for you and others - you cannot be discriminated against because of your gender as gender is not a protected characteristic.  Sex discrimination (which may or may not have been what has happened here) is illegal as a person's sex a protected characteristic.   Many people use the word gender when they should be using the word sex or believe that gender should be considered a protected characteristic but it is not in UK law.

Discrimination: your rights: Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics') - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Everyone has turned being offended into a cottage industry. It's  hard to have a laugh with people anymore. Society has changed for the worse imo.

They really haven't  What's changed - for the better - is that bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments are being called out for what they are: pathetic, unfunny and unnecessary.  It's not hard to have a laugh with people at all, unless one's the sort of person that makes bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments that most reasonable, decent people find tragically embarrassing at best, and unwelcome at worst.  The only people unhappy with this progress are those that want a free pass to make bigoted/racist/sexist/lewd/inappropriate comments without consequence and get upset when there are consequences.  Those people generally make more noise and a 'cottage industry' out of things than those being genuinely offended.  It's why they're usually found at comedy gigs from the 1970s, shouting at GB News or telling anyone who'll listen that they're being silenced.

....while describing themselves as 'anti woke' of course!

Quite.  I love the fact that these people spend all their time saying that they have no voice, that they can't say anything any more, that they're being silenced, on any and every platform they can find.  I mean, a certain news channel was created as a whole outlet for them, for goodness' sake.  You've only got to look at the list of presenters and regular guests, it's a catalogue of weird conspiracists and politicians with nothing to offer.  There was a fake vicar (now banned), an actor-turned-activist-turned-mayoral-candidate (also banned) and a load of grifters who can't get jobs in proper media outlets.  None of them can actually define what they mean by "woke", either.  At least they're all corralled into one place where we can laugh at them easily.

GingerTim

I've never met people more whiny and with a bigger persecution complex (and dare I say it, anyone more 'snowflakey') than the so-called 'anti-woke'.

They'll complain about young people not being resilient enough, but faced by something that challenges their world view - say, a film casts a woman in a role previously performed by a man, or are told that racist language isn't acceptable any more) - and they won't stop crying and moaning.

Gavin83

As I said before OP I'd recommend you stop posting. You won't get whatever answers you're hoping for here.

Ultimately if we take you at your word (and I see now reason not to) there are two possible scenarios here. The first is that this is a misunderstanding and you've done nothing wrong. Unfortunately if this is the case there's probably nothing you can do about it but it is frustrating to be accused of something you know you haven't done.

The second option is that you've said something inappropriate and you've no idea what that was. If the bar manager is unwilling to tell you what that was then frankly there's no way you can learn from it so unfortunately you'll have to repeat this mistake until someone actually tells you.

Either way just forget about it, move on and find another pub. 

Pollycat

Gavin83 said:

As I said before OP I'd recommend you stop posting. You won't get whatever answers you're hoping for here.

Ultimately if we take you at your word (and I see now reason not to) there are two possible scenarios here. The first is that this is a misunderstanding and you've done nothing wrong. Unfortunately if this is the case there's probably nothing you can do about it but it is frustrating to be accused of something you know you haven't done.

The second option is that you've said something inappropriate and you've no idea what that was. If the bar manager is unwilling to tell you what that was then frankly there's no way you can learn from it so unfortunately you'll have to repeat this mistake until someone actually tells you.

Either way just forget about it, move on and find another pub. 

Or change his behaviour so he doesn't make sexual remarks that pub managers deem unacceptable.

screech_78

There’s an elderly gentleman that frequents a local cafe that I’m in a few times a week for a takeaway coffee/sandwich etc. He sits in, sits in the same seat every day and is a lovely man who I don’t believe means any harm. However, I’ve had a few comments from him that make me feel very uncomfortable and has started to put me off going in if he’s there at the same time. I haven’t said anything as like I said, I don’t think he means any harm but he’s also of a generation that seemed to get away with these types of comments. 

I’ve also been harassed by men whilst walking home from the pub on my own. It’s awful and women are sick of it. 

sheramber

I can remember a time when females were upset if they didn’t get a wolf whistle when they passed a building site. Times have changed. 

Gavin83

Pollycat said:

Gavin83 said:

As I said before OP I'd recommend you stop posting. You won't get whatever answers you're hoping for here.

Ultimately if we take you at your word (and I see now reason not to) there are two possible scenarios here. The first is that this is a misunderstanding and you've done nothing wrong. Unfortunately if this is the case there's probably nothing you can do about it but it is frustrating to be accused of something you know you haven't done.

The second option is that you've said something inappropriate and you've no idea what that was. If the bar manager is unwilling to tell you what that was then frankly there's no way you can learn from it so unfortunately you'll have to repeat this mistake until someone actually tells you.

Either way just forget about it, move on and find another pub. 

Or change his behaviour so he doesn't make sexual remarks that pub managers deem unacceptable.

How is he meant to change his behaviour when he has zero idea of what behaviour it is he’s meant to change? It’s like shouting at a child for being naughty and then refusing to tell them what they actually did.

Besides this is all theoretical. No one has any idea whether he actually did anything wrong at all.