Pub barring

Bluenunn_in_the_north

TELLIT01 said:

If the OP was 'reasonably merry' i.e. drunk when they entered the pub they shouldn't have been served in the first place, but if pubs actually did obey the law they would probably go bust.  In answer to the OPs question any business can refuse to serve anybody.

Except on grounds of discrimination.

Bluenunn_in_the_north

user1977 said:

Misandric? Well, yes I suppose you could pursue a case for sex discrimination. I expect the vast majority of customers they’ve barred for sexually harassing other customers are men - that seems like cast iron evidence in your favour. 

Let us know when the court case reaches the local paper…


Seriously though, they don’t need to give you any detail or reason. What made you think they would, given you already seem to accept the principle?

Of course I'm  not going to pursue it. It's a philosophical question. 

It was a false allegation and if ny gender was part of the decision making process, that is illegal.

Men are routinely mis-believed and metaphorically emasculated. I'm  an individual not all men. 

Thanks

RefluentBeans

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

RefluentBeans said:

And why do you feel you’re being discriminated against? 

I see it quite often. The reason I feel possibly discriminated against is because;

A) It's a false allegation.
B ) If you swap the roles and it was me saying a girl said 'something sexual' do you honestly believe they would bar her immediately without any explanation or do a little investigation, or laugh in my face.

If you believe I would be treated differently in the identical situation but the roles reversed, what is the difference, gender. What does that mean, discrimination based on an identity  component. Men are always disbelieved in that kind of scenario and have had girls, who know that, take advantage many times.

It's real and it's called misandry.

Remember, I didn't do it and wasn't even asked for my version of events. How is that balanced and fair?

I don’t think your thought experiment really proves anything. 

I do find it odd that a life time ban (ie barring) would happen over a mild discussion at the bar, and if it was so heinous, why you were allowed to finish your drink. So you could rethink what was actually said when they barred you; and how you responded. I think any barring would’ve resulted in your response to being asked to leave - something drunk men typically don’t take well, especially when ‘it ruins their nights’. 

If you don’t like what the bar did, move on with your life and don’t go there again. Or if you legitimately feel you were discriminated against, then file a claim in court. But these cases are almost impossible to win, as thought experiments don’t count in court - they rely on evidence and facts, and not whataboutism and straw man arguments. 

Bluenunn_in_the_north

Pollycat said:

I really doubt that the manager is misandric.

Being 'reasonably merry' by your own admission, I'd guess you probably did say something that caused offence.

It may be that she (or other bar staff) overheard your comments and didn't take someone else's word for what you said that caused offence. You were stood at the bar, after all.

Depending on your attitude when you left, I'd pop back and apologise for any offence you caused and ask if she'll lift the ban.
Of course, if you came over as aggressive or spouted your 'misandric/discriminatory nonsense, it probably won't do any good.

Is anyone else getting a little tired of all this 'I'm being discriminated against' type of posts?
I'm not disputing that there is a lot of real discrimination going on that needs to be called out, but really...?
A female manager who has an extreme dislike of males...?

I'm a regular in there and am always friendly, polite and well behaved. I only at the bar for 2 mins waiting. Maybe they misheard something, I'm befuddled.

Yes, good idea. I may pop back in January  when it's quiet and talk to the other manager and ask for a little explanation and apologise if required. He knows I'm  a fair customer. I'm not concocting a many discrimination scenario but from perspective, I didn't  do anything  wrong. I'm anti woke and pro fairness.

Thanks

RefluentBeans

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

user1977 said:

Misandric? Well, yes I suppose you could pursue a case for sex discrimination. I expect the vast majority of customers they’ve barred for sexually harassing other customers are men - that seems like cast iron evidence in your favour. 

Let us know when the court case reaches the local paper…


Seriously though, they don’t need to give you any detail or reason. What made you think they would, given you already seem to accept the principle?

Of course I'm  not going to pursue it. It's a philosophical question. 

It was a false allegation and if ny gender was part of the decision making process, that is illegal.

Men are routinely mis-believed and metaphorically emasculated. I'm  an individual not all men. 

Thanks

The not all men gets banded around. It is not impossible your comments were not Ill-intentioned but still made someone made uncomfortable. It doesn’t matter if you feel the comments were fine, it’s what they think. 

It is also starting to veer into Tate-ism now and I don’t think there’s much point in arguing as you feel you’ve done nothing wrong; despite peoples comments pointing politely that you may have. 

If you want to visit the bar again, bite your tongue and apologises to them. If you don’t, swerve the bar. 

Bluenunn_in_the_north

MattMattMattUK said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Hi

Just a quick query about the legal, and practical, position I'm in after a visit to my High Street pub.

So I went to this pub a couple of nights ago, reasonably merry when I went. I went to the bar and ordered a cider. There were 3 women next to me and I had a quick chat about their drink.

I went and sat down and finished the drink and returned to the bar to order another.

Utterly unexpectedly the manager said I 'said something sexual' without elaborating and barred me for 6 months.  She didn’t think  even tell me what I was alleged to have said and to whom.

I didn’t say anything of the kind. I know all pubs are private premises but it seems to me that she took someone else's word and determined a course of action without even asking me anything.

I feel it was a little misandric. How can it be acceptable to bar someone without any elaboration?

Just interested out of curiosity that I may be being discriminated against.

Thanks

As an ex pub manager I would say the fact that you have immediately gone to those as the reason you were barred are highly indicative of a kind of person who does not normally recognise when their behaviour has passed the threshold of unacceptable. Barring is rare for a one off incident unless is extreme, normally people would get a slap on the wrist and sent home for the night. Is there more to this than you are perhaps letting on? 

Honestly no. That's straight up what happened. It's  a Wetherspoons. They are renowned for instant barring for minor transgressions. Any Google search will elucidate that.

But I take your point.

Bluenunn_in_the_north

HillStreetBlues said:

MattMattMattUK said:

As an ex pub manager I would say the fact that you have immediately gone to those as the reason you were barred are highly indicative of a kind of person who does not normally recognise when their behaviour has passed the threshold of unacceptable. Barring is rare for a one off incident unless is extreme, normally people would get a slap on the wrist and sent home for the night. Is there more to this than you are perhaps letting on? 

I agree.
If what was first said warranted a 6 month ban, then it wouldn't have waited until OP went back to get another drink.
It's more likely that OP was either warned or refused another drink and OP kicked off about it.

Nope. I accepted what she said immediately and didn't kick off at all. Clear memory, I was shocked.

Please don't assume stuff. I wouldn't have posted this question if I knew I did anything wrong behaviour wise, that's the entire point.

I agree, they would have come to my table to say something. It's  all odd but it was so loud in there, I just left. I was debating leaving after 1 anyway. 

Maybe misidentified 

Bluenunn_in_the_north

RefluentBeans said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

RefluentBeans said:

And why do you feel you’re being discriminated against? 

I see it quite often. The reason I feel possibly discriminated against is because;

A) It's a false allegation.
B ) If you swap the roles and it was me saying a girl said 'something sexual' do you honestly believe they would bar her immediately without any explanation or do a little investigation, or laugh in my face.

If you believe I would be treated differently in the identical situation but the roles reversed, what is the difference, gender. What does that mean, discrimination based on an identity  component. Men are always disbelieved in that kind of scenario and have had girls, who know that, take advantage many times.

It's real and it's called misandry.

Remember, I didn't do it and wasn't even asked for my version of events. How is that balanced and fair?

I don’t think your thought experiment really proves anything. 

I do find it odd that a life time ban (ie barring) would happen over a mild discussion at the bar, and if it was so heinous, why you were allowed to finish your drink. So you could rethink what was actually said when they barred you; and how you responded. I think any barring would’ve resulted in your response to being asked to leave - something drunk men typically don’t take well, especially when ‘it ruins their nights’. 

If you don’t like what the bar did, move on with your life and don’t go there again. Or if you legitimately feel you were discriminated against, then file a claim in court. But these cases are almost impossible to win, as thought experiments don’t count in court - they rely on evidence and facts, and not whataboutism and straw man arguments. 

Hi.

I was on my way home anyway. There are loads of other bars there too.

I'm  not thinking of bringing a case it's  not that important me. I was simply seeing what others thought in a similar situation.

I can assure you misandry happens, to attempt to downplay that concept is a little myopic if I may say so but I respect your opinion.

I've  had false allegations before, blatantly to door staff. They immediately believe the woman without question and the ones who do it, know that.

Pollycat

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

GingerTim said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Hi

Just a quick query about the legal, and practical, position I'm in after a visit to my High Street pub.

So I went to this pub a couple of nights ago, reasonably merry when I went. I went to the bar and ordered a cider. There were 3 women next to me and I had a quick chat about their drink.

I went and sat down and finished the drink and returned to the bar to order another.

Utterly unexpectedly the manager said I 'said something sexual' without elaborating and barred me for 6 months.  She didn’t think  even tell me what I was alleged to have said and to whom.

I didn’t say anything of the kind. I know all pubs are private premises but it seems to me that she took someone else's word and determined a course of action without even asking me anything.

I feel it was a little misandric. How can it be acceptable to bar someone without any elaboration?

Just interested out of curiosity that I may be being discriminated against.

Thanks

If you were already 'reasonably merry' when you arrived at the pub surely it's entirely conceivable you may have said something untoward?

I would not expect the manager to identify the complainant, particularly if it was a woman, for quite obvious reasons.

Misandric? Give over.

I know who the complainant was as I only talked to one group of girls at the bar about the colour of their drinks.

I'm  always polite and some weird sexual comment isn't me. 

In hindsight I should have found them and checked the veracity of what they said.

Is it possible I said something I don't  recall, probably  less than 1% chance as I was lucid. I was cycling!

Misandry, see the above thought experiment. I've had it done before, so you're wrong.

Thanks for the input.

Cycling!
Whilst being merry?
Really?
The height of stupidity.
Think total lucky that the worst thing that happened to you was you got battered from a pub for 6 months.

As for the 'in hindsight I should have found them...', I think you're very lucky that your hindsight didn't kick in.

oldernonethewiser

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

oldernonethewiser said:

One person's "reasonably merry" is another's "obnoxious drunk"

Drink (less) elsewhere

It was end of year shindig, I hear what you say but kept myself to myself, last one on way home..

Thanks

Apart from speaking to a group of girls and commenting on their drinks.