Pub barring

Gavin83

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you here. Theres no reason to disbelieve your version of events. It might not even be that these women complained. The manager might have misheard something you said or they might have had a description of someone who’d done something wrong and incorrectly identified you.

There have been times in my life I’ve been asked to leave a pub/bar when I’ve done nothing wrong. Sometimes aggressively, without even asking first. I once got thrown out a bar for being too drunk when I was driving that night and hadn’t touched a drop. Another time I was in a bar talking to my girlfriend when a bouncer shoved my arm up my back and threw me out. He then attempted to stop my girlfriend from leaving, trying to chat her up and when he realised he wasn’t getting anywhere came out and became very aggressive with me, to the point his colleagues had to get involved. Bar/security staff can be knobheads and can enjoy a power trip. I’ve only ever actually been barred from a pub once though, for underage drinking, which I was admittedly guilty of.

I also agree I’m not sure they’d act the same way if the genders were reversed. I’ve been sexually assaulted by women in bars/clubs before but you try getting the security staff to take that seriously. This was a while back when I was younger so maybe it would be treated differently now but I expect not.

Anyway back on topic. Ultimately though there’s little you can do about it. They don’t have to serve you. If you feel that angry about it then leave them some terrible reviews on the likes of tripadvisor but given it’s a Spoons I doubt it’ll make much difference. I sympathise though, it’s frustrating to be falsely accused of something, especially when you aren’t even told what that something is.

oldernonethewiser

Gavin83 said:

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you here. Theres no reason to disbelieve your version of events. It might not even be that these women complained. The manager might have misheard something you said or they might have had a description of someone who’d done something wrong and incorrectly identified you.

There have been times in my life I’ve been asked to leave a pub/bar when I’ve done nothing wrong. Sometimes aggressively, without even asking first. I once got thrown out a bar for being too drunk when I was driving that night and hadn’t touched a drop. Another time I was in a bar talking to my girlfriend when a bouncer shoved my arm up my back and threw me out. He then attempted to stop my girlfriend from leaving, trying to chat her up and when he realised he wasn’t getting anywhere came out and became very aggressive with me, to the point his colleagues had to get involved. Bar/security staff can be knobheads and can enjoy a power trip. I’ve only ever actually been barred from a pub once though, for underage drinking, which I was admittedly guilty of.

I also agree I’m not sure they’d act the same way if the genders were reversed. I’ve been sexually assaulted by women in bars/clubs before but you try getting the security staff to take that seriously. This was a while back when I was younger so maybe it would be treated differently now but I expect not.

Anyway back on topic. Ultimately though there’s little you can do about it. They don’t have to serve you. If you feel that angry about it then leave them some terrible reviews on the likes of tripadvisor but given it’s a Spoons I doubt it’ll make much difference. I sympathise though, it’s frustrating to be falsely accused of something, especially when you aren’t even told what that something is.

Another option is that what was said by the OP was offensive in some way and that is the reason for the resulting ban.

The OP did write earlier that they may have said something that they couldn't recall, so who knows what that might have been and the effect it may have had on anyone.

diinozzo

To summarise: OP recalls going into the bar for one last drink at the end of a boozy evening chatting to three woman, (despite keeping themselves to there selves) not remembering clearly what was said to the three woman  and then going to the bar for a second last drink before getting on his bike home. What was it the Queen said? Ah it was 'Recollections may vary'...wasn't it? Even more so when alcohol is involved I suggest.

Gavin83

oldernonethewiser said:

Gavin83 said:

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you here. Theres no reason to disbelieve your version of events. It might not even be that these women complained. The manager might have misheard something you said or they might have had a description of someone who’d done something wrong and incorrectly identified you.

There have been times in my life I’ve been asked to leave a pub/bar when I’ve done nothing wrong. Sometimes aggressively, without even asking first. I once got thrown out a bar for being too drunk when I was driving that night and hadn’t touched a drop. Another time I was in a bar talking to my girlfriend when a bouncer shoved my arm up my back and threw me out. He then attempted to stop my girlfriend from leaving, trying to chat her up and when he realised he wasn’t getting anywhere came out and became very aggressive with me, to the point his colleagues had to get involved. Bar/security staff can be knobheads and can enjoy a power trip. I’ve only ever actually been barred from a pub once though, for underage drinking, which I was admittedly guilty of.

I also agree I’m not sure they’d act the same way if the genders were reversed. I’ve been sexually assaulted by women in bars/clubs before but you try getting the security staff to take that seriously. This was a while back when I was younger so maybe it would be treated differently now but I expect not.

Anyway back on topic. Ultimately though there’s little you can do about it. They don’t have to serve you. If you feel that angry about it then leave them some terrible reviews on the likes of tripadvisor but given it’s a Spoons I doubt it’ll make much difference. I sympathise though, it’s frustrating to be falsely accused of something, especially when you aren’t even told what that something is.

The OP did write earlier that they may have said something that they couldn't recall, so who knows what that might have been and the effect it may have had on anyone.

Well what they actually said was there was a less than 1% chance they said something they couldn’t recall because everyone was implying they must have done something.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thread where the OP has had their words twisted so much nor been essentially accused of being a liar.

OP, have a think about something you might have done but I expect you’ve already done that. If you did do something wrong but have genuinely no idea what and no one is willing to tell you then there’s really no way for you to learn from this experience.

Ultimately though this whole thread is ridiculous and needs to just fall away. I’d stop posting on it if I was you.

oldernonethewiser

Gavin83 said:

oldernonethewiser said:

Gavin83 said:

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you here. Theres no reason to disbelieve your version of events. It might not even be that these women complained. The manager might have misheard something you said or they might have had a description of someone who’d done something wrong and incorrectly identified you.

There have been times in my life I’ve been asked to leave a pub/bar when I’ve done nothing wrong. Sometimes aggressively, without even asking first. I once got thrown out a bar for being too drunk when I was driving that night and hadn’t touched a drop. Another time I was in a bar talking to my girlfriend when a bouncer shoved my arm up my back and threw me out. He then attempted to stop my girlfriend from leaving, trying to chat her up and when he realised he wasn’t getting anywhere came out and became very aggressive with me, to the point his colleagues had to get involved. Bar/security staff can be knobheads and can enjoy a power trip. I’ve only ever actually been barred from a pub once though, for underage drinking, which I was admittedly guilty of.

I also agree I’m not sure they’d act the same way if the genders were reversed. I’ve been sexually assaulted by women in bars/clubs before but you try getting the security staff to take that seriously. This was a while back when I was younger so maybe it would be treated differently now but I expect not.

Anyway back on topic. Ultimately though there’s little you can do about it. They don’t have to serve you. If you feel that angry about it then leave them some terrible reviews on the likes of tripadvisor but given it’s a Spoons I doubt it’ll make much difference. I sympathise though, it’s frustrating to be falsely accused of something, especially when you aren’t even told what that something is.

The OP did write earlier that they may have said something that they couldn't recall, so who knows what that might have been and the effect it may have had on anyone.

Well what they actually said was there was a less than 1% chance they said something they couldn’t recall because everyone was implying they must have done something.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thread where the OP has had their words twisted so much nor been essentially accused of being a liar.

OP, have a think about something you might have done but I expect you’ve already done that. If you did do something wrong but have genuinely no idea what and no one is willing to tell you then there’s really no way for you to learn from this experience.

Ultimately though this whole thread is ridiculous and needs to just fall away. I’d stop posting on it if I was you.

"Is it possible I said something I don't  recall"

May well be a remote possibility but the OP can't recall, so we will never know.

RefluentBeans

Gavin83 said:

oldernonethewiser said:

Gavin83 said:

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you here. Theres no reason to disbelieve your version of events. It might not even be that these women complained. The manager might have misheard something you said or they might have had a description of someone who’d done something wrong and incorrectly identified you.

There have been times in my life I’ve been asked to leave a pub/bar when I’ve done nothing wrong. Sometimes aggressively, without even asking first. I once got thrown out a bar for being too drunk when I was driving that night and hadn’t touched a drop. Another time I was in a bar talking to my girlfriend when a bouncer shoved my arm up my back and threw me out. He then attempted to stop my girlfriend from leaving, trying to chat her up and when he realised he wasn’t getting anywhere came out and became very aggressive with me, to the point his colleagues had to get involved. Bar/security staff can be knobheads and can enjoy a power trip. I’ve only ever actually been barred from a pub once though, for underage drinking, which I was admittedly guilty of.

I also agree I’m not sure they’d act the same way if the genders were reversed. I’ve been sexually assaulted by women in bars/clubs before but you try getting the security staff to take that seriously. This was a while back when I was younger so maybe it would be treated differently now but I expect not.

Anyway back on topic. Ultimately though there’s little you can do about it. They don’t have to serve you. If you feel that angry about it then leave them some terrible reviews on the likes of tripadvisor but given it’s a Spoons I doubt it’ll make much difference. I sympathise though, it’s frustrating to be falsely accused of something, especially when you aren’t even told what that something is.

The OP did write earlier that they may have said something that they couldn't recall, so who knows what that might have been and the effect it may have had on anyone.

Well what they actually said was there was a less than 1% chance they said something they couldn’t recall because everyone was implying they must have done something.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thread where the OP has had their words twisted so much nor been essentially accused of being a liar.

OP, have a think about something you might have done but I expect you’ve already done that. If you did do something wrong but have genuinely no idea what and no one is willing to tell you then there’s really no way for you to learn from this experience.

Ultimately though this whole thread is ridiculous and needs to just fall away. I’d stop posting on it if I was you.

If the words used caused offence, even if unintended, it doesn’t make it okay. To approach a group of people at the bar and make remarks on their drinks (which the OP hasn’t elaborated on) is unnecessary, and if they made them feel uncomfortable then it isn’t okay, and I can see why someone may not want to serve them. 

There’s plenty more that can be said here - but to OP’s point of misandry/whether his rights have been breached - OP has failed to provide (other than a weak thought experiment) any evidence of this. Additionally, Wetherspoon’s is a private company and can set its own entrance policy and refuse to serve someone. The reality is that unless he was super obnoxious when he left, they won’t remember him and he’ll probably be fine to drink there again. Maybe not comment on other peoples drinks next time - unless it’s a ‘that looks really nice, what is it?’ - but at Wetherspoons I feel those words are rarely muttered. 

Grumpy_chap

Brie said:

And - fyi for you and others - you cannot be discriminated against because of your gender as gender is not a protected characteristic.  Sex discrimination (which may or may not have been what has happened here) is illegal as a person's sex a protected characteristic.   Many people use the word gender when they should be using the word sex or believe that gender should be considered a protected characteristic but it is not in UK law.

Discrimination: your rights: Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics') - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

In the context of the list of protected characteristics, wouldn't "gender" be an interchangeable word for "sex"?

Okell

Grumpy_chap said:

Brie said:

And - fyi for you and others - you cannot be discriminated against because of your gender as gender is not a protected characteristic.  Sex discrimination (which may or may not have been what has happened here) is illegal as a person's sex a protected characteristic.   Many people use the word gender when they should be using the word sex or believe that gender should be considered a protected characteristic but it is not in UK law.

Discrimination: your rights: Types of discrimination ('protected characteristics') - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

In the context of the list of protected characteristics, wouldn't "gender" be an interchangeable word for "sex"?

No.

Sex and "gender" are two entirely different attributes and are treated differently by the legislation

Sex is a biological attribute and gender is a social construct.

The legislation prohibits discrimination on the grounds of sex.  As regards gender, it only prohibits discrimination on the grounds of gender for those who have undergone - or are undergoing - gender reassignment.

As @Brie says , many people (and especially Stonewall) wrongly use the two terms as if they were interchangeable.  They are not.  (And I think it's because people don't appreciate the difference that there is so much confusion around the whole "gender identity" issue)

Aylesbury_Duck

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

Pollycat said:

I really doubt that the manager is misandric.

Being 'reasonably merry' by your own admission, I'd guess you probably did say something that caused offence.

It may be that she (or other bar staff) overheard your comments and didn't take someone else's word for what you said that caused offence. You were stood at the bar, after all.

Depending on your attitude when you left, I'd pop back and apologise for any offence you caused and ask if she'll lift the ban.
Of course, if you came over as aggressive or spouted your 'misandric/discriminatory nonsense, it probably won't do any good.

Is anyone else getting a little tired of all this 'I'm being discriminated against' type of posts?
I'm not disputing that there is a lot of real discrimination going on that needs to be called out, but really...?
A female manager who has an extreme dislike of males...?

I'm a regular in there and am always friendly, polite and well behaved. I only at the bar for 2 mins waiting. Maybe they misheard something, I'm befuddled.

Yes, good idea. I may pop back in January  when it's quiet and talk to the other manager and ask for a little explanation and apologise if required. He knows I'm  a fair customer. I'm not concocting a many discrimination scenario but from perspective, I didn't  do anything  wrong. I'm anti woke and pro fairness.

Thanks

Oh lord, you're one of those. I'd bar you from a pub if I owned one, and my house, just for saying that load of old cobblers.  You're "anti-woke", are you?  It sort of fits the situation you found yourself in,  to be honest.  I'm now inclined to believe you said something inappropriate to the other customers but because you're "anti-woke", you don't actually think it would or should have been taken the way it was.

Okell

Desmond_Hume said:

What colour were their drinks? You say that’s what you commented on. 

I'd love the OP to tell us what he said.

I'm trying to imagine a (slightly?) tipsy unaccompanied male initiating an uninvited conversation with some women at the bar about the colour of their drinks.

How would the conversation begin?  What would the women think in the circumstances?  Would they welcome the exchange or be a bit worried about it?

Belenus said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:   

I've  had false allegations before, blatantly to door staff. They immediately believe the woman without question and the ones who do it, know that.

That to me suggests a possible pattern of behaviour that you might do well to think about and modify.

MattMattMattUK said:

Bluenunn_in_the_north said:

I've  had false allegations before, blatantly to door staff. 

I have drunk in Weatherspoons, as well as plenty of other pubs and bars, I drink in them on regular occasions, for many years I would have been out 3-4 nights a week, talking to people I knew, as well as many I did not, I have never once had allegations, false or otherwise. 

I've been a committed and very enthusiastic pub and club customer for 50 years, and I've never been involved in any incidents or allegations in all that time with bar staff, security staff or other customers...

(I tell a lie.  I was once on a coach full of very drunken law students and the driver threatened to throw us all off.  But I wasn't involved in the trouble.  I was sitting at the front on my own.  It was the girls causing the trouble - honest... )