Moving on with things

alt80

I think some people on here have a point that I am probably a bit adrift now I’m seeing the end of paying off the last card balance. Been sat here thinking about it for the past hour or so. End of a !!!!!! era lol, really though I think it is making me realise that it’s done. The good and bad of my life is over, I’m just struggling to accept this is it now. I have no !!!!!! ambition left apart from working towards my wife being ok when I’m gone. I miss the buzz of the “old days” 100% and the thought of having to !!!!!! save up for whatever my wife wants us to have thereafter is soul destroying. I would like to spend some money on the house too and my options are to borrow more against it or to spend years in it as it is now and save up. That seems even !!!!!! more depressing just waiting !!!!!! years to actually make it ours in the meantime having to face the can’t afford element. Cutting our lifestyle further for years or still taking what we do currently from the business and still waiting. 

Really didn’t think at the start of this year I’d be like this. I was looking forward to accepting my lot and spending much more time with my wife and son, working less. I wanted to have less stress in my life and idk this might sound really !!!!!! dumb but to redefine my own idea of success, stop chasing the money. I realise I need the money more than ever, my wife wants and deserves nice things and I would like to ensure that is possible for her forevermore. There never is enough though. Seeing others enjoying their lives still, I’m made up for them but !!!!!! soul destroying for me. I really wish I didn’t care and I’m !!!!!! livid with myself that I let stress beat me and can’t just get on.

katsu

@alt80 maybe your wife *wants* you to be here "forever", or as long as she is?  I think she enjoys having you around, not just spending the money you bring in. She clearly does enjoy buying some fancy stuff but she also talks about wanting you to keep seeing the pros and seems to imagine a long future together now. 

I don't think you've been left behind in life, as you are loved. You've created a strong marriage and a happy home for your son. Many, many, people would love to have one of those, never mind both,  let alone a relationship with yours parents and in laws.

You've got a good standard of living and are rich in the most important things, the ones money can't buy.

Like others here I hope you'll find more contentment and mental peace in time. You are working hard at it so hopefully it will increase. 

MFWannabe

alt80 said:

I think some people on here have a point that I am probably a bit adrift now I’m seeing the end of paying off the last card balance. Been sat here thinking about it for the past hour or so. End of a !!!!!! era lol, really though I think it is making me realise that it’s done. The good and bad of my life is over, I’m just struggling to accept this is it now. I have no !!!!!! ambition left apart from working towards my wife being ok when I’m gone. I miss the buzz of the “old days” 100% and the thought of having to !!!!!! save up for whatever my wife wants us to have thereafter is soul destroying. I would like to spend some money on the house too and my options are to borrow more against it or to spend years in it as it is now and save up. That seems even !!!!!! more depressing just waiting !!!!!! years to actually make it ours in the meantime having to face the can’t afford element. Cutting our lifestyle further for years or still taking what we do currently from the business and still waiting. 

Really didn’t think at the start of this year I’d be like this. I was looking forward to accepting my lot and spending much more time with my wife and son, working less. I wanted to have less stress in my life and idk this might sound really !!!!!! dumb but to redefine my own idea of success, stop chasing the money. I realise I need the money more than ever, my wife wants and deserves nice things and I would like to ensure that is possible for her forevermore. There never is enough though. Seeing others enjoying their lives still, I’m made up for them but !!!!!! soul destroying for me. I really wish I didn’t care and I’m !!!!!! livid with myself that I let stress beat me and can’t just get on.

Have you sat down with your wife and told her what you’ve told us in the beginning of that last paragraph? 

We all would like ‘nice’ things, cars, kitchens etc but our priorities are all different and we understand that it’s not financially possible for us to have everything; that way of thinking is how we got on this board in the first place! 

I think you need to speak to your wife and have a serious conversation about the next steps after debt, that you want to work less and have more family time (your business is still there ticking over!); maybe that means allocating money towards more holidays / days out? 

Re look at the budget and prioritise what’s important that you both want to save towards 

You need to forget about what others have, they maybe are in massive debt to have it or their financial situation is on a much seriously higher level that you will seriously stretch to bearing point trying to obtain and which realistically you probably never will? 

You need to set yourself realistic goals of what you can obtain and change the thinking of buying your wife things that she deserves 
doesn’t she deserve to have a more calm secure life and a less stressed husband more? 

Remember go much better you were last weekend? Remember that and that’s how you can be in the future? 

From what I remember you have a very healthy income and think how much of that is currently paying off debt, what could that realistically buy you in the future when you put that into savings? 

Speak to your financial advisor if you need to ref insurance, savings and pensions 
Don’t just plan for when you’re not here; plan for a healthy financial future 

daisy_1571

It is hard to know what to replace it with when you achieve something you have been working towards for a long time.  Id been working on paying off mortgages for years and when it happened I missed the fiddling with spreadsheets and thinking/planning about paying it off.  

Its 'easy' with a financial debt to know what to do with it.  You have a finite figure, you pay a bit off, you recalculate, you have a new total.  Its almost tangible so its easy.

You can recreate that with a total for holidays, a total for kitchen, a total for the garden etc.  Yes its annoying having to split your money and save in different pots as it takes longer to meet all your goals but you had to make decisions about where to put your money when you were paying off loans/cards. 

Look back at the start of this diary.  September 2022.  Back then you were thinking exactly tge same, how long this was all going to take, years of repayments ahead of you, all the stuff you couldn't do because of the debts.  But, with magic   almost like time travel suddenly you are in July 24.  And you have achieved so much.  Re read your posts back then.  I think it would help you to see how the daily grind, sooooooo hard when going through it, so oooooo demoralising when looking ahead but it seems oh so quick when you look back.

daisy_1571

I'm also going to throw another little firework into the debate.   You say nothing is going to change when the debts are paid off and Mrs alt can't seem to understand there will be no money for work around the house.  I'm with her on this - that's a ridiculous notion.   

I am assume you draw down money from the business?   I'm also assuming that this changes each month depending on how you see the business performing?  I'm sure that's proper business practice and how you can pay off such eye watering chunks to your debts each month.   I wonder if it would help if you looked at your draw downs over the last couple of years and pick one of the lower monthly amounts.   Set up a standing order for this amount to come out the business into a personal account.  Pay bills out if this, send a monthly standing order out if it into a savings account for the holidays,  house improvements etc and actually watch it grow.  In other words treatbit like a wage. 

Thats how employees have to manage their money and how they see the results of their hard work.  If you leave everything in the business I can understand how you don't feel its 'your' money, do you see it all as 'the business's money'.   A psychological shift in thinking about it might help you see its ok to save, then spend this money each month.  

And I'm sorry,  but complaining you will have to save up for the things you want is your 3 year old inner child talking lol.  You're old enough to know thats how it works for 99.5% of the world population .  And you're also intelligent enough to know many many families would also love to give their loved ones the world but they have to manage perfectly happily to stay within their monthly salaries of half what you were paying over to your debts each month.  And of course many more are struggling to cope with even less than that.   You are highly privileged to have the business money to fall back on if you need to.  I know thats down to your own hard work and buildingon opportunitiesyou have seen or made, but you must acknowledge there's an element of luck in there too.  Not everyone earning less than you is there through being somehow less than you so try to learn to enjoy where you are in the world and the comfort it can buy you all.

Your house is important, you should all feel happy with it.  Think how much time you will gain back if you save up a few months and replaced the kitchen so you feel its yours and you don't need to clean it all the time?

Ignore if any if this is wide of the mark, just trying to help.

alt80

Well the football was a real disappointment although tbf the best team won and whilst we were all hoping they’d win, we knew they were the weaker team. Son wasn’t as upset as either of us thought he was going to be either.

@katsu yes, my wife wants me around and for us to grow old together, she’s the reason I am home from the office for a reasonable time everyday as she turns up to work everyday for us to walk home together. She believes if I did what the pros tell me every single day that I’d sleep and enjoy life much more, hate to use what is probably the most over used and !!!!!! rubbish excuse ever but I don’t have the time for it. I know that I am blessed to have her. Therapy did her the world of good. In terms of my family I am really lucky, I know that and I am so thankful to have them. I try not to be miserable around them. 

@MFWannabe / @daisy_1571
she is aware of it and has been trying to encourage me to embrace a different way of living. I just can’t settle into basically resigning myself to my current lot in life and have just wound up feeling a !!!!!! failure, it’s my problem. It isn’t that I am ungrateful for what I do have although I can see why other’s may think so. I hate not being good enough and not being good enough for my family. I’ve always been like that, never content always !!!!!! striving for the next thing but for a while I’ve not been well. The first time I basically had a breakdown (didn’t realise it at the time) I went on a massive recruitment drive, knew somewhere I couldn’t rely on myself I suppose. That formed the foundation for my business as it is today really. 

Last weekend I was with my wife, son and in-laws at centre parcs - managed to escape the thoughts in my head and just enjoy the moments sounds !!!!!! cliched I know but it is what it is.

I currently draw £8.5k after tax per month and £2k of that is currently budgeted to pay debts. Once the card balance has gone I am planning to draw £6.5k after tax and let the additional £2k work for itself, likewise we have an EQC and EQE leased through the business. When the EQC goes back I would like that to be working too rather than leasing another car. These aren’t mega sums, I get that, but it’s all additional amounts that will over time ensure security for my wife. Pre-covid I used to take a further lump sum dividend at the end of my financial year, not doing that since before Covid has allowed me to increase reserves and get my office premises off a !!!!!! horrendous rate commercial mortgage and into the current SSAS set up. So they are all goals I am still working on and I’ve also got a residential portfolio of 13 held in Ltd. at 75% LTV which I would like to reduce the amount owed. These are not personal finance goals as they are dealt with prior to drawing my salary/ dividends but feed into how much I take and long term personal security. 

Pre-Covid I took everything I possibly could that my accountant considered ok which I why I’d take the additional dividend at the end of the year - it went a way to funding my lifestyle and looking back I’m !!!!!! fortunate we didn’t have a bad year. A lot of mad spending on my part was fuelled by the state my head was in when I was heavily using cocaine - it isn’t an excuse and not being of !!!!!! sound mind led me to bleed whatever source of money I did have dry until I couldn’t which led me here and because Covid had suitably !!!!!! with my head enough, I actually listened to some different POVs. I genuinely think I would have !!!!!! imploded had I not, for once in my life, actually listened to a load of other POVs which I wouldn’t have done had Covid not happened. For whatever reason that first lockdown was blissful with my little family and truthfully the first time I actually enjoyed having a marriage and family. It changed my life but !!!!!! with my head also when that first lockdown was over I had to face the !!!!!! horrendous mess my finances were in (more than £225k in car finance and just over £55k on credit cards, having cleared card balances of over £100k 18 months earlier by refinancing my BTLs to 85LTV which existed at !!!!!! shocking rates for that time. The business EV leases came about because we gave up the personal cars). I was also up to my neck in well into 7 figures of development finance on a project that wasn’t well thought through and was basically at my wits end. I was paranoid as !!!!!! and convinced myself values wouldn’t hold post-Covid, the lenders would pull the plug on the development finance and a !!!!!! tonne of unregulated mortgages that I had with LTV covenants and call in the personal guarantees and I’d be entirely done for. I honestly thank the !!!!!! heavens that values buoyed and I somehow got through. I’m not exaggerating when I say whenever I think back to that time my panic levels are sky high. It possibly explains why some on here who are aware of most / all of that are saying I have come a long way idk.

Spent long enough hovering over whether to post this, ha and need to try to sleep.

MFWannabe

You need to keep reading this to see how far you have come! You’ve come a massively long way 
Ref the 2k you currently draw for debts; why don’t you draw it and save towards the new kitchen, other works to the house or holidays? 

If not all of it then split it so you draw 1k 
You have btl’s so I assume you know people in the trade and can get kitchens etc at trade prices? 

Any holidays planned this year? You need to spend time with your family before your son is grown up 
You said previously you’d like to go to Scotland; have you been? If not why not plan a trip there? Maybe hire a motorhome and travel round Scotland?

Have you ever listened to Dave Ramsey? He was very similar to you in his younger years and lost it all; now very much and advocate for living debt free 
Some of it I find too much but the basic principals I agree with 

daisy_1571

Thank you for posting that.  I think its a really good resource for you to be able to have so you re-read these thoughts at a later stage in your life.  This diary after all is primarily for you to offload and if anyone reading thinks they can help, fantastic, but of course you only need take anything you find helpful.   I still think you should go back and re-read this one.  I know you said you'd had an earlier diary, I didn't read it but it might be helpful to read it too.  Its very easy to misremember how things were, to forget goals that were once important or felt impossible, to nit see just how very far we have come or our thoughts have changed.  I very much applaud being able to see and also sometimes take other pov on, lots of people would simply never be able to do that.

As regards your drawdowns, yes its great have another slice of money to service business mortgages but you say that's all being serviced within the accounted for money. So I think you are mixing up business money and personal money.  Take what the accountant says you should be and do good things with it.  Ring-fence it away, instead of it going into the account it currently goes in get it straight into a new account.  That way you see the 6.5 come in and mentally thats good.  We have one called 'home account that's printed on the card by the bank so we know thats for the weekly living money.  Open an account and name it something that makes sense to you - obviously not something daft the bank folk woukd cotton onto. Even just Account B on the card would differentiate it from normal spending.  Let it build up in there so you can all do the campervan thing round scotland, go see Wales maybe or the lakes or broads, do little breaks just the 3 of you and begin looking at kitchens and bathrooms and house things.  Make it a challenge between you and Mrs alt to find the cheapest way to get the units and appliances you want so you both get to see the results of your financial savvy in clearing the debts and, possibly even more importantly, not going into debt again.

And for me personally, I think its !!!! brilliant that you were able to be present in the moment on your holiday, not clichéd and not to be embarrassed about.   Keep doing what you are doing and these kind of moments will happen more and more often 

As Arthur Shappey would say 'BRILLIANT' ☆  

Keep on keeping on

Daisy xx 

☆(sorry, I've been watching some of the little you tubes John Finnemore did over lockdown as a character from his radio series  'cabin pressure' and while it likely won't mean anything to you, I cant help but channel that character from time to time 😉 😀)

vampirotoothus

Hi Alt, if you could do anything, with no money or time constraints, what would you do? I know you like cars, but I don't see plans for a weekend to see a car event, or a driving day that you could all do. What other things are there that you would all like? How about an evening where you all sit and write all the things you'd like to do / places to go on post it notes and put them in a jar. Then pick out 1 or 2 at the start of each month and get planning? V x

alt80

Managed to write down everything that is tripping me off this morning; vast majority is money/ spending related. Spoke to the pros yesterday about it after a completely !!!!!! sleepless night thinking about things that I have somehow managed to get through. As the balance is getting lower and it is nearing the big fat !!!!!! £0, I'm thinking more about it.

@MFWannabe / @daisy_1571 That's basically the conflict between my wife and I, she doesn't understand why I am planning for her being on her own and why I just don't want the money in my personal accounts; she thinks I am afraid to have "money burning a hole in my pocket". 

All I know is property but I'm not after getting my kitchen in my home done on the cheap. The job I will have done is not a few of months saving up. That is basically what the previous guy did; nice quality tops, appliances, tiling and flooring but the kitchen units / doors are of the mass produced type. 

We are going to visit my parents in Greece and will be taking them on holiday to Croatia. We budget £6k a year for holidays and that trip has used up the majority of this year's budget. We can't stay with my parents because they live in a very small flat and it is nice to rent a villa for us all to stay in. 

As for Scotland, yes I would love to have done the NC500 back when I had a sports car or even when I had my Supercharged Range Rover. I no longer have a sports car and choose not to drive these days 9/10. That sort of trip imo the driving should be shared more evenly than that and the vehicle you go in is all part of the experience. 

Yes I am both aware of and have listened to Dave Ramsey. I used to absolutely hate him and early on in my debt free journey I couldn't listen to anything he said, I think it was another reminder of how close things were. With the work I've done with the pros I understand Dave Ramsey's philosophy and if I could start over I would broadly follow it. He's a !!!!!! legend coming back from where he was, no matter what you think of his views. I'm sure he'd say it is not too late for me to follow the elements that appeal, I actually have a document I'd put together when I was in a better frame of mind which is effectively his baby steps but more relevant to my situation and reflective of being in the UK. I write quite a few letters to my son for him to open when he's at various milestone birthdays / life events, sometimes just random dates in the future. I do not know if I will ever give them to him or destroy them as I'd rather he get his advice from a better source but a few are based on those baby steps I came up with. 

Having shook my head and spoken to the pros you are right about being in the present moment on holiday. The times I am, I am in a much better frame of mind. It's one of the reasons I hate leaving the office tbh, when I'm working I don't drift into the negative thinking, believe it or not I actually have very good focus. However, when I do nothing but work I am not at all ok once I leave, don't want to leave especially not to sleep and that still triggers drug cravings.

@vampirotoothus I don't know what I'd do in those circumstances mate, no !!!!!! clue. Probably start another business for something to do.

I used to like cars, don't have anything to do with them anymore. My son is a little petrolhead though, my wife takes him karting and to some of the car shows in our little old car. Not something I want to go to these days at all but I don't mind him talking to me about it.

We did quite a lot of family days out together when I started trying to deal with my personal debts. I started avoiding going with my wife and son when the panic attacks got really bad and anxiety set in. I don't really have the excuse as we worked out it was being triggered when I was heading away from built up environments related to concerns about my health and I'm doing a lot better since being able to apply a bit of !!!!!! logic to it, ha. I've got the pros on my back trying to get me out of my home and office a bit to conquer it so you probably have a point.