Moving on with things

Cherryfudge

Children are great at tripping off their parents but remember you are the adult and know a lot more about the world than he does. It's likely, but not certain that this friendship will move on and that could happen even if they were at the same school. As adults, we know there will be more friends, wider horizons. He can't yet see that.

There isn't much I can tell you that hasn't already been said - much of it is in what you yourself write. In fact, I wonder if writing it out is helpful? Putting things into words is powerful, whether it helps you understand something or let something out.

Just a thought about giving gifts to your wife: if the shoes are something she associates with bad times, are there things you could give her that won't have those associations? You have to think wider here and be really personal - if she's off the chicken salad diet, cook her a meal. Find an exquisite wild flower and tell her it reminds you of her. Go for a family hike and frame a photo from it. Just stop in the middle of everyday life and tell her she's gorgeous. You get the idea. You will know better than anyone what gifts are beyond price.

strawb_shortcake

Hi Alt, 

Been following your progress, you should be very proud of how far you've come. 
Don't get too hung up on the secondary school for your Son, more often that not children start a  new school and make completely new friends. 

I am a great advocate of the Scouts, not sure how old your Son is but I think he'd really benefit from going, the activity seem to align with your Son's interests and perhaps he'd really benefit from being around a different mix of children from all backgrounds. We all bring something to the table regardless of the contents of our bank accounts.

daisy_1571

alt80 said:

From having spoken to her this evening I don’t think she even appreciates me buying her gifts apparently still reminds her of the peaks of my addiction because I used to buy her a lot of stuff then. I was hoping that she would move on from that train of thought.

You were hoping she'd move on from that train of thought?   Like you have been so easily able to move on from your particular trains of thoughts that many people in your life tell you to move on from?  Back in those days of wasting yourself and thousands, she was clear headed and she saw you coming in and splashing the cash around with expensive presents.  It won't hold nice memories.  

Please listen to the words she is telling you.  She wants the debt gone BEFORE you do the easy-and-no-thought-required-thing of buy something. Like   cherryfudge said, put some thought into free things.  You want to spend time with them, they want to spend time with you.  As you are now.  Not the person you were before.   Show you appreciate these good times by the thoughtful things, a cuddle, a cuppa brought when you see shes tired, hoovering, wiping the crumbs away etc etc whatever it is that normally you don't see and she has to ask you to do.  Buying something that somebody has already picked out is nice, but I appreciate mr ds love for me even more on the days when he remembers not to put the buttery knife down on the kitchen bunker which has driven me mad most days in the last 30odd years lol.  

The comment by your son.  You don't need to share his actual words but did he say those actual words or are you interpretting them into that in your own mind?  I agree with baileysbabe, if it wasn't for you and your business he wouldn't live/lived in nice houses, be clothed, be fed every day with a choice of foods that isn't take it or leave it, be driven in nice cars to activities he wants to do, have the opportunities he has and so on.  Maybe your own words and attitudes are being picked up by him and he wants 'the best' (in inverted commas as the best can mean very different things to different people at different times of their lives).  Maybe he genuinely needs a wake up call about gratitude for all the things he has, instead of ungrateful for all the things he perceives he doesn't have.  Idk, you know the true situation,  I'm just picking up on things you write and trying to give another perspective. 

As I understand it, a decent parent feels guilt for all sorts of things the child can't even remember happening/not happening, so I think you're completely normal in that 

Thats an interesting suggestion from annabanana, get him into social situations with a wide range of backgrounds.   All playing and learning together in some group like the scouts might open his eyes a bit.  Its always easy to feel aggrieved someone else has more, harder to remember how much further on than many others we are.

satchmo1

My DH suffers from anxiety, and has (mostly) learned to manage it via mindfulness meditation. When he forgets to meditate I can see the difference in him. When he does meditate I comment that I can tell he has been meditating. 

One of the things he has learned is that thoughts are just that - thoughts. Not facts. 

Keep finding something to be thankful for in every day. Maybe have a habit of saying at the dinner table what you are thankful for, and then asking your son and your wife what they have felt thankful for today. It can be something as seemingly small as "someone said good morning and asked me how I am". Or "I was thankful for my packed lunch".

I am thankful that you have persevered with your sobriety, and for prioritising your family, and for allowing us into your debt-free journey.

FootyFanDan

daisy_1571 said:

alt80 said:

From having spoken to her this evening I don’t think she even appreciates me buying her gifts apparently still reminds her of the peaks of my addiction because I used to buy her a lot of stuff then. I was hoping that she would move on from that train of thought.

You were hoping she'd move on from that train of thought?   Like you have been so easily able to move on from your particular trains of thoughts that many people in your life tell you to move on from?  Back in those days of wasting yourself and thousands, she was clear headed and she saw you coming in and splashing the cash around with expensive presents.  It won't hold nice memories.  

Please listen to the words she is telling you.  She wants the debt gone BEFORE you do the easy-and-no-thought-required-thing of buy something. Like   cherryfudge said, put some thought into free things.  You want to spend time with them, they want to spend time with you.  As you are now.  Not the person you were before.   Show you appreciate these good times by the thoughtful things, a cuddle, a cuppa brought when you see shes tired, hoovering, wiping the crumbs away etc etc whatever it is that normally you don't see and she has to ask you to do.  Buying something that somebody has already picked out is nice, but I appreciate mr ds love for me even more on the days when he remembers not to put the buttery knife down on the kitchen bunker which has driven me mad most days in the last 30odd years lol.  

The comment by your son.  You don't need to share his actual words but did he say those actual words or are you interpretting them into that in your own mind?  I agree with baileysbabe, if it wasn't for you and your business he wouldn't live/lived in nice houses, be clothed, be fed every day with a choice of foods that isn't take it or leave it, be driven in nice cars to activities he wants to do, have the opportunities he has and so on.  Maybe your own words and attitudes are being picked up by him and he wants 'the best' (in inverted commas as the best can mean very different things to different people at different times of their lives).  Maybe he genuinely needs a wake up call about gratitude for all the things he has, instead of ungrateful for all the things he perceives he doesn't have.  Idk, you know the true situation,  I'm just picking up on things you write and trying to give another perspective. 

As I understand it, a decent parent feels guilt for all sorts of things the child can't even remember happening/not happening, so I think you're completely normal in that 

Thats an interesting suggestion from annabanana, get him into social situations with a wide range of backgrounds.   All playing and learning together in some group like the scouts might open his eyes a bit.  Its always easy to feel aggrieved someone else has more, harder to remember how much further on than many others we are.

I must admit i did have a little giggle at this  I appreciate mr ds love for me even more on the days when he remembers not to put the buttery knife down on the kitchen bunker which has driven me mad most days in the last 30odd years lol.  - I imagine for my partner it is on the days I decide to not leave the top off the milk on the side 😂 

daisy_1571

    marriage is finding that one special person you can annoy for the rest of your life 

daisy_1571

I am thankful for the sharing and caring that goes on in this forum.  And the little things that make us laugh and help get us through the day 

alt80

The weather has been beautiful today. Set to be not so great tomorrow though - have to enjoy it whilst we can. Have managed about 45 minutes sat in my garden. I should have spent that time updating my personal finances but I just couldn’t face doing anything at that point in the day.

@Baileys_Babe yeah that’s true. Tbh I’ve hardly stopped feeling guilty for my wife sticking with me since I made a proper effort to get and stay in recovery, can’t help but think she could have been better off with someone else.

@Cherryfudge you are right about him being frustrated and basically can’t see beyond his mate leaving. Agree that their friendship is likely not going to last a lifetime, just the !!!!!! fact of the matter really.

I think you’re right about writing for me. I do journalling as well that starts conversations with the pros, idk get the thoughts out of my head as I’m very good at over thinking ha.

We have been doing those kinds of things for a while and don’t buy presents beyond birthdays / Christmas and we don’t go mad for those occasions either now. In the moment it’s really quite nice but I get bouts of guilt thinking I have spoilt all those occasions and buying things for the sake of it too.

@annabanana82 good to hear from you, hope you’re well. 

Funny you should mention scouts, his school has a group and he’s just joined this past month. He is enjoying it so far. My son does do quite a lot of activities / sports - his school is very good in that respect and it’s all provided there basically doesn’t require logistics iyswim not because we are snobs, ha.

@daisy_1571 Yeah, that’s a fair point re trains of thought and tbf some of the reason I still need and !!!!!! rely on the pros. 

I spend 2-3 hours cleaning the house every day. I don’t want her to have to deal with the house anymore. I’m sure I do things to !!!!!! her off as she does me though, none of us are immune to that, ha.

A few people on here have mentioned that they think my son might have a sense of entitlement. It’s something that has been bothering me a little bit as tbf he probably does have in some ways, not in others but in some ways that aren’t good for him. My wife isn’t great on the discipline side of parenting. My sister and I were !!!!!! terrified of our mum as kids lol but that is not my wife’s strong point, she’s more like a mate than a parent sometimes and I do acknowledge that’s not always helpful to him. Your take on the best is interesting idk I’ve always seen it as being concrete but I suppose your take on it is more forgiving.

@satchmo1 Ha, my wife knows when I’m not doing as I’ve been told by the pros too. Also had many a conversation about thoughts similar to that of your husband. I just a bit thick and struggle to apply the stuff I should be doing to help with my mental health in everyday life. I don’t find gratitude particularly easy either and it is something I should practice more - been sat here thinking what the !!!!!! I could write that I am grateful for today and it’s basically that I have got through another day without turning to substances when I would have likely had in the past and that I have a nice garden and garden furniture to sit out and enjoy the sunshine. We tend to only really talk about gratitude as a family at the end of the month when we donate a little money to charity / the lend with care projects. I find it kind of prompts gratitude for what we do have in life. Lastly, thank you.

@FootyFanDan I do things like that when I’ve had little sleep if I notice it, it goes straight in the bin. Wife will put it back in the fridge though which really !!!!!! trips me off. Tbf I don’t have the best sense of smell so am very careful about milk.

@daisy_1571 ha, my Mrs says that too. Think we’re all grateful for the little things that make us laugh, as for this forum I’m really grateful for the diverse perspectives. It’s something I love about business too, throwing a load of very different people, personalities and perspectives all at differing life stages together to work towards a common purpose.

daisy_1571

my word, 2 to 3 hours a day cleaning?   You must have the cleanest, tidiest house in the area lol.  You certainly deserved your 45 minutes in the sun.

The gratitude thing is an interesting one.  I know I've been guilty in the past of thinking 'ive got little to be grateful for, what a ridiculous idea'.  Life in our early days together was hard and 15% mortgages with a small wage in a little ex council flat all i could see was struggle for years ahead, not being able to afford things i wanted, feeling EVERYONE had more than me, you know the sort of thing.  I didn't really get what the gratitude thing was about. 

Then one day coming back from yet another shi$$y day at work, sitting in a queue of traffic at the lights feeling sorry for myself i saw a man walking along the road.  He wasn't that much older than me.  He was well covered up, shirt, tie, v neck jumper, heavy overcoat, proper shoes, large leather gloves, all in dark colours.   Everyone around was in light summer clothes as it was a warm day.  I can see this man now even though it will be about 27 years ago.  I don't know what his condition was, maybe cerebral palsy, sorry if anyone knows thats not what I'm describing,, no offence meant.   His legs were bent under him making his body slope to the other side to balance himself.   It looked like his knees and ankles hinged different to the usual givinghim a difficultand laboured gait.  Every step was an effort for him.  He had a bag slung over his body as I presume that was easier than holding a bag as his arms also looked twisted.   I watched him for a moment and it was painful to see him walk.  If I could have waved a wand and taken his condition away I would.  Every step was such an effort.  I thought Daisy you don't have a flipping thing to worry about.  Here you are, young, strong, healthy, sitting on your own motorbike, able to jump on and off without a thought, i'll walk into my flat in a few moments, all with no thought to what my body is doing.  That chap has got dressed presenting himself neatly and tidily, he's got to work, he's walking home and everything is a physical struggle.  I totally took my health and ability for granted.  

In my callous young way I of course immediately forgot and still felt aggrieved at how awful my life was.  But I saw him on more than one occasion over the years around the same area, sometimes morning going the other way, sometimes teatime going back home so gradually it did begin stick in my mind to be grateful for what I had so easily overlooked.  Always with his heavy leather gloves, always smartly dressed but warmly dressed whatever the weather.

Same as when I have a cold.  Suddenly I appreciate all the breaths I used to easliy breath in and out my nose.  Didn't appreciate them at the time.  When I see things on TV about other countries and remember to be grateful I live in a country not generally subject to hurricanes, we haven't been invaded and are getting bombed, I have clean safe water at the turn of a tap, I have food, warmth, clothes.  All the things I overlook so easily when I feel sad for myself and my poor situation. 

Thank for this chat.  Its good to remind myself and try not to be complacent about my relatively comfortable life.  Maybe we should start a monthly gratitude thing like you do alt.  Cheers

alt80

Absolutely whacked tonight, so !!!!!! tired constantly, meant to sort the personal finances out for the month but haven’t managed to. If I don’t tomorrow, I’ll get it done over the weekend. 

@daisy_1571 It !!!!!! kills me some days but I used to make my wife do this and it wasn’t right. We also have a dog which doesn’t help but it is what it is. 

Think we’ve all had those moments when someone has come into our lives even if only very briefly and it makes you reflect. I know exactly where you’re coming from re underneath knowing your own life is not that bad but feels !!!!!! most days all too well unfortunately.