EV Discussion thread

JKenH

US Crosses the Electric-Car Tipping Point for Mass Adoption

http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/us-crosses-the-electric-car-tipping-point-for-mass-adoption-1.1789671

JKenH

BMW electric SUV smashes Which? test record with 380-mile range on a single charge

Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/bmw-smashes-electric-mile-record-while-others-fail-to-deliver-claimed-range-axRUe8I0Hp1j?utm_source=which&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=text_share - Which?

JKenH

At the forefront of electromobility: BMW Group doubles global sales of fully-electric vehicles in first half-year

https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/at-the-forefront-of-electromobility-bmw-group-doubles-global-sales-of-fully-electric-vehicles-in-first-half-year/

JKenH

Car of the Year 2022: Nissan Ariya

The Auto Express Car of the Year for 2022 is the all-electric Nissan Ariya

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/nissan-ariya/358321/car-year-2022-nissan-ariya

JKenH

Peugeot Launches E-Expert Hydrogen Fuel Cell Van

https://insideevs.com/news/597206/peugeot-e-expert-hydrogen-van-launched/

Exiled_Tyke

JKenH said:

"EVs aren't the only answer": Toyota scientist on the future of cars

I would have liked to quote the whole article but for copyright reasons I can’t so will just post the link.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/evs-arent-only-answer-toyota-scientist-future-cars

I'm sorry to say that I'm yet again disappointed by the lack of objectivity in this article. It does raise some relevant issues (for example the lack of lithium to support a global role out of BEVs and the need to continue to develop other technologies) but overall it does feel like a biased attempt to cling on to ICEs.

shinytop

Exiled_Tyke said:

JKenH said:

"EVs aren't the only answer": Toyota scientist on the future of cars

I would have liked to quote the whole article but for copyright reasons I can’t so will just post the link.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/evs-arent-only-answer-toyota-scientist-future-cars

I'm sorry to say that I'm yet again disappointed by the lack of objectivity in this article. It does raise some relevant issues (for example the lack of lithium to support a global role out of BEVs and the need to continue to develop other technologies) but overall it does feel like a biased attempt to cling on to ICEs.

I don't disagree that the article promotes PHEV and hence ICEs. But he makes a very good point.  Buying a TMX to commute 30 miles a day is a bit like buying  a Sprinter van to go shopping.   

There are finite resources in the world and we need to use them more wisely than putting so much of them into a single car. How about two smaller BEVs instead of one big one?  

"I can talk about that from experience. My wife and I bought a Tesla Model X, because we’re good friends with a chief engineer on that car. It’s an incredible car. But my wife used it to commute 30 miles a day, which meant 90% of the battery wasn’t being used most of the time. We were just dragging all this weight, all these raw materials, around.

“We all know that we’re in an era of limited battery supply. Well, couldn’t those battery cells have been used for a better purpose in eight PHEVs like the Toyota RAV4 Prime, where the battery capacity would have contributed to much more total emissions savings on almost every journey?”"

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

JKenH said:

"EVs aren't the only answer": Toyota scientist on the future of cars

I would have liked to quote the whole article but for copyright reasons I can’t so will just post the link.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/evs-arent-only-answer-toyota-scientist-future-cars

I'm sorry to say that I'm yet again disappointed by the lack of objectivity in this article. It does raise some relevant issues (for example the lack of lithium to support a global role out of BEVs and the need to continue to develop other technologies) but overall it does feel like a biased attempt to cling on to ICEs.

Obviously we see things differently and I acknowledge your point.  It is always going to be difficult to overcome bias in both what is written and how we perceive it. 

EVs are an emotive topic but what isn’t nowadays? We all have such a binary view of the world. So much of what is published and written about EVs is polarised and equally what is consumed is polarised.

At the two extremes are “EV Haters” who don’t have a good word to say about electric cars and don’t recognise their role in decarbonising the world and at the opposite extreme are the “EV fanatics” who won’t have a word said against EVs. Unfortunately both these extreme camps tend only to see EVs in this binary way. If you’re not in one camp you must be in the other. Hence popular newspapers like the Daily Express and Daily Mail get labelled EV Haters when in fact they post articles both pro and con EVs. 

The reality is that the jmajority of us occupy that vast swath of ground in the middle, where we just want to drive the car that’s right for us and let others drive what they want. We are aware of climate change and want to do our bit but we also have our own finances and way of life to accommodate. We want to be informed and hear the good and the bad of not only EVs and ICEVS but also hybrids and PHEVs.  Some of us just aren’t certain enough about EVs to jump now and some of us don’t know if there will be alternatives available in a few years time which might work better for our lifestyle and the planet. Some of us also realise that even if we wanted to we couldn’t all switch to EVs now or even in 5 years time as there just aren’t the supply chains in place to produce them or infrastructure in place to charge them all, so what  do we drive in the interim?

Can we not assume for the purposes of this thread that there is a wide diversity of opinion out there and that the more diverse the opinions we read the better our understanding will be. We may not agree with what’s written but at least it enables us to understand that there are alternative opinions (and even sometimes facts) out there even if we perceive them to be from a biased source. 

There would be no point in this thread if it just regurgitated the good news stories. The idea is to make us think rather than blindly accepting everything we read. 

The purpose of the two posts about the cost of repairing EVs was not to demonstrate that they cost more to repair than ICEs but that potentially they can do. Just because an EV doesn’t have an engine with hundreds of moving parts doesn’t mean it can’t break down or suffer expensive electronic failures (as of course ICE cars can as I know to my cost).

I have absolutely no problem with people posting on here about all the good points of owning an EV. I love my Leaf and 355 days a year I have no reservations. It has been an absolute joy to see all the electrons flooding into the car from my solar panels the last few days. I can go out for a day in the Lincolnshire Wolds completely free of charge and if I am getting low I can top up (while having a quick stop) at Market Rasen Tesco where I have never seen more than one other car charging on the 4 free pod point chargers. The car is a total pleasure to drive. I’ve never had an ICE car come close.

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke said:

JKenH said:

"EVs aren't the only answer": Toyota scientist on the future of cars

I would have liked to quote the whole article but for copyright reasons I can’t so will just post the link.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/evs-arent-only-answer-toyota-scientist-future-cars

I'm sorry to say that I'm yet again disappointed by the lack of objectivity in this article. It does raise some relevant issues (for example the lack of lithium to support a global role out of BEVs and the need to continue to develop other technologies) but overall it does feel like a biased attempt to cling on to ICEs.

Yeah, their 'games' are running thin now. I think Toyota would have a better chance of pretending to be looking at, and supporting all solutions, if they had started rolling out BEV's 5yrs ago like most legacy auto, or 10yrs ago like Nissan.

By dragging their heels on BEV's, whilst campaigning in America, India, UK, Europe etc, against tougher fuel standards, and a transition away from ICEV's, and also running what is barely short of a brainwashing campaign in Japanese schools to promote PHEV's and exclude BEV's ...... it's hard to believe that they are interested in a range of solutions.

But regardless, it makes little difference now. As batteries got cheaper, and BEV range improved, the justification for PHEV's has fallen, whilst their cost, running cost (complexity), and real World emissions all work against them. We can also see it in countries sales charts, where PHEV's seem to stall at a given percentage (around 5-10% in the UK) whilst the rest of the market slowly shifts to BEVs.

Good product for its time, and as we've discussed recently, perhaps a great SH buy to help transition, but now starting to lose viability.*

I do partly admire their battery shortage argument, it's quite clever, but they've been pushing that for 10yrs. Couldn't they have put their efforts into battery production, like the Tesla Nevada battery factory announced 8yrs ago, or VWG's work to open 6 x 40GWh factories?


*Speaking of which, was chatting with my sister yesterday, who really wants to get a BEV, but can't commit the monies yet (ASHP on the way). They have an ageing BMW 3, and a Landrover LR2, both of which are kinda the fall back for each other. Plus the farm complex about 100m from their smallholding has a Landrover workshop, which is mighty handy. We looked at some SH prices for an IONIQ BEV like ours, but not many available, and not cheap. I mentioned MG new BEV prices weren't bad, but that haggling may no longer make them cheap, plus again, too much money today. So I suggested a petrol Fiesta (or similar), and keep eyes open for a PHEV, since they have 10kWp of PV, so ideally suited for PEV's.

They don't really need the LR2 for the small holding, but their fields slope down and away from their house, so it has been handy, especially when wheelbarrow trips would be too numerous ....... so I finally suggested an all round solution, for medium road distance travel, BEV, and farm use, the Vanderhall Brawley ..... sorted. 

shinytop

Toyota seem to be second only to VW for the amount of slating they get on these boards but maybe they see Li batteries as yesterday's technology.  Eking out the ICE/PHEV market for a bit longer might allow them to sneak up on the inside with something better.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1136415_toyota-and-panasonic-lead-in-solid-state-battery-patents

And yes I know SS batteries have been talked about for many years but it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few.  With batteries half the size or less we could start to see more BEVs that are the same size as the cars most people drive.