EV Discussion thread

JKenH

As some of you will be aware Martyn1981 has clarified the purpose of the BEV news thread he started - “the intention for this thread was to enjoy the transport revolution and share BEV news. That might even be described as a 'cheerleading thread' I suppose, and I'm not sure why that would be wrong on a Green & Ethical Board.  But it's definitely not a discussion thread, and of course in no way prevents anyone from creating discussion threads on BEV's.” Martyn1981 has renamed his original thread as Battery Electric Vehicle News Thread / BEV Cheerleading Thread ;-).

I have therefore started a new thread where discussion can take place on matters EV related (including PHEVs) and to include also AFVs such as HFCVs. The thread is open to everyone whatever they want to discuss, whether it is in the news or based on their own personal experiences, cost of running an EV, charging etc, good or bad. If a post on the BEV News/BEV Cheerleading thread interests you and you want to discuss it please copy it across here. Any point of view is welcome on the subject of EVs/AFVs but I would request no comments of a personal nature or name calling please.

JKenH

EU faces EV crisis over charger disparities.

https://www.emergingrisks.co.uk/eu-faces-ev-crisis-over-charger-disparities/

1961Nick

JKenH said:

EU faces EV crisis over charger disparities.

https://www.emergingrisks.co.uk/eu-faces-ev-crisis-over-charger-disparities/

According to the Zap Map there are over 35,000 charging points in the UK so we're probably only 2nd to the Netherlands in terms of chargers/square mile. Moving the funds for the EV grant to the charging network should improve matters if it actually happens.

michaels

JKenH said:

EU faces EV crisis over charger disparities.

https://www.emergingrisks.co.uk/eu-faces-ev-crisis-over-charger-disparities/

Surely what matters is chargers pwer EV initially and chargers per population/mile driven as adoption increases.  Basing an article on chargers per country seems bonkers.

JKenH

Copied from the BEV news thread so I could reply. 

paul991 said:

as  someone wo  just had to buy  a  new/ used ice  vehicle  i would of loved  to buy a bev but the initial layout was just too much and a  shortage of  good second  hand  vehicles on the market .i fail to understand  people say the  shortage of charge points because there seems to be loads round here several of them free

Reply

There are loads around but not always where you want them.

I have previously said “I think in most urban areas, if one charger isn’t available you can find another one not too far away. There are two Instavolts in Gainsborough and I can’t ever recall seeing them both in use at the same time - but it’s not really on the way to anywhere and anyone local will have charged at home. The problem is belting up and down trunk roads where there provision is poor and competition for them is high.”

and

Electric cars are great to drive, extremely convenient to charge at home, cheap to run and for many people very tax efficient - that’s really why most people buy them - but they entail a significant change (compromise) to how one goes about long journeys which doesn’t always become apparent until you use one. 

I have run an electric car for a while now. Technically I am on my third but that’s a long story. I got rid of my 2 ICE cars soon after I got my new 40kWh Leaf a couple of years ago and have managed with this. My wife has a Kia Picanto but I don’t like driving it so the only driving I do in it is to take her too or from the garage or when I went to the dentist when she took the Leaf on a longer trip.

I am an electric car fan but I don’t try and convince other people to buy one without telling them the cons as well as the pros. For me the pros outweigh the cons but there have been times (like last weekend) when I couldn’t get on a charger that I wished with hindsight that I had taken my wife’s car for that journey. It would have cost me around £50 in petrol in the Picanto though compared to the £10.50 I spent on charging plus the cost of filling up at home which being 75% from my solar panels cost me around 50p. Was the hassle worth £40? Only you could decide that.

You do have to bear in mind what others have said, for instance, to be on the safe side on a long run you need to top up before your car gets down to 20% so whatever car you buy the useful range may be a bit less than the advertised range. You can though run it right down to 0% if you are able to charge at home. 

It all depends on your usage pattern. Anyone can run an EV as their sole car as long as they accept they it may not always be as straightforward as filling up an ICE car and plan accordingly.

1961Nick

Zap Map page with a breakdown of charger types & location...

https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

paul991

I have  just retired part of  my  job was to look after 10 free chargers quite  often we would get reports of chargers not  working only to get on site and  find a car in the spot on charge working ,the  main problems we had were incorrect inserting and removal of plugs,we found  a few higher end cars would trip out the  supply if the settings were not correct.
on another point i wonder how much energy the cameras and other electronics take on higher end vehicles

QrizB

I'm sorry to see this schism but I can see how it could help to avoid personal attacks.

I'll be reading both threads and contributing where I can.

paul991 said:

I have  just retired part of  my  job was to look after 10 free chargers quite  often we would get reports of chargers not  working only to get on site and  find a car in the spot on charge working ,the  main problems we had were incorrect inserting and removal of plugs,we found  a few higher end cars would trip out the  supply if the settings were not correct.

PEBCAK rears its ugly head once again!

on another point i wonder how much energy the cameras and other electronics take on higher end vehicles

I would guess not an awful lot; similar to a mid-range PC, that might draw 200 watts?

Martyn1981

paul991 said:

I have  just retired part of  my  job was to look after 10 free chargers quite  often we would get reports of chargers not  working only to get on site and  find a car in the spot on charge working ,the  main problems we had were incorrect inserting and removal of plugs,we found  a few higher end cars would trip out the  supply if the settings were not correct.
on another point i wonder how much energy the cameras and other electronics take on higher end vehicles

I can only speak for Tesla ownership (the older IONIQ is more basic than modern ground up BEV computers on wheels), but a very strong recommendation is to have sentry mode set to not be active when parked at home (if off road), as it can eat away at energy monitoring and recording people, animals etc..

I should add that in use, even at (modest) motorway speeds, 250Wh/mile is achievable in a Tesla, which runs a lot of cameras, A/C, passive safety etc etc, and processing of traffic all around. So smaller, lighter city vehicles, with small lighter batts too, should achieve far better in the future, so not a huge concern, but certainly an energy demand.

Magnitio

There appear to be a lot of BEV's that are bought by people who do very low mileages. Just looking at Autotrader, there are 53 BEV's for sale that were registered before 2018 and have covered less than 20,000 miles. That includes some Renault's with battery leases that must have cost their owners a fortune. Given the higher environmental impact of manufacturing BEV's, I'm sure most of the owners would have been better off with a small petrol car. Thoughts?

michaels

Magnitio said:

There appear to be a lot of BEV's that are bought by people who do very low mileages. Just looking at Autotrader, there are 53 BEV's for sale that were registered before 2018 and have covered less than 20,000 miles. That includes some Renault's with battery leases that must have cost their owners a fortune. Given the higher environmental impact of manufacturing BEV's, I'm sure most of the owners would have been better off with a small petrol car. Thoughts?

On the other hand I am looking at used leafs and many are well over 100k - even some 4 year old former taxis.  we have done about 10k per year in our 7 year old leaf 24 which I think is above average uk mileage which is now 6-8k pa?