The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Ibrahim5

Thrugelmir said:

Ibrahim5 said:

Maybe that's why France is banning short flights where the train can be used instead.

In France the TGV network connects major conurbations. Building a similar network in the UK is a non starter. 

Sounds a bit like HS2 to me.

yessuz

Ibrahim5 said:

I remember quite a few times on the Autoroute filling up with diesel and the next stop being to fill up with diesel after having used the whole tankful without stopping. 480 miles only 6 hours. Always felt a bit disgusting but it's still nothing compared to taking the family on a plane. Obviously with an EV you just have to accept it will take longer. more overnight stops. May have to do that in the future. Just don't see any point in jumping in at the moment. Wise man just stands back and watches and changes when picture clearer and technology improved.

firstly, it's not good  for you and not recommended to drive long hours without stop.

Petriix

Thrugelmir said:

Petriix said:

As far as I'm concerned it's weak government. Proper legislation to ensure genuinely affordable, mass-market EVs were available would not really require much effort. As things stand, prices are going up and up which seems to be penalising those who wait. 

The magic money tree illusion. Where somebody else pays. 

VW have already sold their entire EV production for 2022. Why the need to subsidise purchasers? 

I was thinking more stick than carrot in this case. Strong legislation including a minimum ratio of EV sales to ICE, ramping up each year with manufacturers being banned from selling too many ICEVs if they can't make enough EVs to sell. I already benefited from the weaker legislation including a £3k grand and a £4k discount because some other manufacturer paid a bung to SAIC for pooling their EV sales.

Herzlos

Sitting in a car (or a motorway) for 6 hours without stopping sounds like torture, it must be awful to drive it.

I was trying to find some stats on driving time and safety but can't actually find anything except for the highway code recommendation to stop for 15 minutes every 2 hours, and an RAC survey:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-research-reveals-safety-risk-how-long-do-you-drive-without-stopping/

It's a survey of how long drivers who have taken their car abroad (which is already a small percentage of drivers) are prepared to drive without stopping. It seems 4 hours is the largest cut off - 42% (of that small percentage) wouldn't drive more than 4 hours without a stop.

So that'd imply that a 280 mile range should be enough for most people.

Of course, the one place EV's struggle is when there are multiple drivers (family road trips, some haulage) where they'd just swap driver every few hours rather than have a proper rest stop. You'd still need toilet breaks, but not fatigue breaks.

Martyn1981

Always worth bearing in mind a bell curve distribution for driving distances and times on long hauls. As Herzlos points out we have Gov and driving organisations suggesting 2hr (to 3hr) breaks, and the majority of drivers at 4hrs or less.

By the time we approach 6hrs and 480 miles, I'd suggest we are into 5% edge cases, and that's being polite, probably far less than 5%.

So, what is the relevance to today, and the roll out of BEV's to the vast majority of people in the main body of the bell curve, rather than the bell ........ 'edges' (trying to avoid another word)?

More important, as suggested by many on here, is cheaper, smaller options, and more importantly just 'more' BEV's as we are massively supply limited.

troffasky

Petriix said:

I was thinking more stick than carrot in this case. Strong legislation including a minimum ratio of EV sales to ICE, ramping up each year with manufacturers being banned from selling too many ICEVs if they can't make enough EVs to sell.

Specifying an outcome [reduced emissions] rather than specifying how it's achieved [ratios of propulsion technology] seems more appropriate, IMO.

Fleet average emissions are why Stellantis dropped the combustion versions of Berlingo/Rifter/etc, even though the battery version is a bit under-ranged and it will probably end up costing them sales.

Ibrahim5

Herzlos said:

Sitting in a car (or a motorway) for 6 hours without stopping sounds like torture, it must be awful to drive it.

I was trying to find some stats on driving time and safety but can't actually find anything except for the highway code recommendation to stop for 15 minutes every 2 hours, and an RAC survey:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-research-reveals-safety-risk-how-long-do-you-drive-without-stopping/

It's a survey of how long drivers who have taken their car abroad (which is already a small percentage of drivers) are prepared to drive without stopping. It seems 4 hours is the largest cut off - 42% (of that small percentage) wouldn't drive more than 4 hours without a stop.

So that'd imply that a 280 mile range should be enough for most people.

Of course, the one place EV's struggle is when there are multiple drivers (family road trips, some haulage) where they'd just swap driver every few hours rather than have a proper rest stop. You'd still need toilet breaks, but not fatigue breaks.

That research points out that 58% of people are happy to drive 4+ hours. 4 hours is 320 miles. Range is supposed to be restricted at 80miles/hour on most EVs. Tesla supposed to be best but a tad expensive. That research also points out that all the French drive south on exactly the same day (black Saturday). I can't imagine that being a good day for EVs when they are all looking for charging points.

Jenni_D

4 hours is 280 miles maximum in the UK, unless you're admitting to being a law-breaker.

Ibrahim5

Jenni_D said:

4 hours is 280 miles maximum in the UK, unless you're admitting to being a law-breaker.

I am talking about France.

Jenni_D

Ibrahim5 said:

Jenni_D said:

4 hours is 280 miles maximum in the UK, unless you're admitting to being a law-breaker.

I am talking about France.

The post you quoted related to a UK-based article. 🙄
And as others have mentioned - talking about France is pointless as it is an edge-case.