The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

yessuz

Herzlos said:

Ibrahim5 said:

Asking daft questions like this at least helps you realize that you are not dealing with normal people but EV obsessives. Look up experiences of people driving across France.

Here's what Europcar has to say about driving an EV in France:

https://www.europcar.com/editorial/en/travel-tips/electric-vehicles-in-france-everything-you-need-to-know-898/

It even says this, which again highlights that you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about:

"France is one of the most developed countries in Europe when it comes to electric vehicles, making it entirely possible to enjoy a driving holiday there if you own or have chosen to rent one. "

There are plenty of people who drive around France and Europe in an EV; there's better infrastructure than in the UK albeit it you do need to stop a bit more often than if you are driving with ICEV. But you're presumably on holiday (so can take it a bit more leisurely) or business (so you can catch up on paperwork).

Have you ever driving an electric car? Why do you keep bringing up the same disproven points to try and make it seem like they don't work?

well, when you travel, and car makes ~400 km in one go - you have to stop for charge every 4 hrs or similar. which you would do anyway, as have bladders and breaks are good as well.

Martyn1981

Herzlos said:

There are plenty of people who drive around France and Europe in an EV; there's better infrastructure than in the UK albeit it you do need to stop a bit more often than if you are driving with ICEV. But you're presumably on holiday (so can take it a bit more leisurely) or business (so you can catch up on paperwork).

You, and those interested, may enjoy Quentin Wilson's report on his drive 10 months ago:

UK to France in a Tesla 769 miles Can we do it?

Quentin is positive, but the comment from Lars is 'somewhat' interesting:

Last week I drove from Germany to Arctic Circle in my 2021 Model 3 Performance. I used only Supercharger and drove 5216 km in 7 days! Absolutely easy and not really a challenge anymore! :-)

Also, my London friend (the one without any home charging) who got a Tesla 3 in 2019, drove his to southern France to try out some of the hilly parts of the Tour de France on his roadbike, and to attend a triathlon camp. He enjoyed it thoroughly. He used 'a better route planner' which sets out your stops, and aims to bring you into a charger at the lowest (sensible) battery level, to minimse charging times (by maximising low battery level charging speeds), and of course leave at an appropriate level for the next leg, not charge too high, at low charge speeds.

Herzlos

yessuz said:

Ibrahim5 said:

yessuz said:

Why EVs are harder to use for a long journey!? Can you please elaborate?

Asking daft questions like this at least helps you realize that you are not dealing with normal people but EV obsessives. Look up experiences of people driving across France.

again - anecdotal evidences are not the constants and 100% accurate

check https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ before talking about journeys, please

That's an awesome site

So I've tried Dunkirk to Marseille (~670 miles from top to bottom of France) with a Citroen Berlingo Space Tourer 50kwh (since it's only got ~100 miles range and is essentially a minibus). It'll take an extra 5 hours vs just driving time with 11 stops. That doesn't seem that unreasonable since I'd want to stop a few times (maybe not 11 times).

Realistically, I'd be stopping every 2-ish hours anyway to stretch legs, maybe see something, so it doesn't seem like that much of an inconvenience. Especially if I was in a full 9 seater, someones bladder is going to fail before the battery.

Edit: Changing the car to a 2021 long range Tesla will do the same journey in 11 hours - 1 hour more than ICE.

Of course, the 'driving' time assumes no stopping at any point, and you're going to struggle to find a car (or bladder) that can do 670 miles without a stop.

yessuz

Herzlos said:

yessuz said:

Ibrahim5 said:

yessuz said:

Why EVs are harder to use for a long journey!? Can you please elaborate?

Asking daft questions like this at least helps you realize that you are not dealing with normal people but EV obsessives. Look up experiences of people driving across France.

again - anecdotal evidences are not the constants and 100% accurate

check https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ before talking about journeys, please

That's an awesome site

So I've tried Dunkirk to Marseille (~670 miles from top to bottom of France) with a Citroen Berlingo Space Tourer 50kwh (since it's only got ~100 miles range and is essentially a minibus). It'll take an extra 5 hours vs just driving time with 11 stops. That doesn't seem that unreasonable since I'd want to stop a few times (maybe not 11 times).

Realistically, I'd be stopping every 2-ish hours anyway to stretch legs, maybe see something, so it doesn't seem like that much of an inconvenience. Especially if I was in a full 9 seater, someones bladder is going to fail before the battery.

Edit: Changing the car to a 2021 long range Tesla will do the same journey in 11 hours - 1 hour more than ICE.

Of course, the 'driving' time assumes no stopping at any point, and you're going to struggle to find a car (or bladder) that can do 670 miles without a stop.

of course, the length and number of stops directly depends on the possible charging speed and consumption.

If you check the Bjorn Nyland on youtube and his 1000 km challenges, you can find in the video details a link to his data spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzvvWJHrBS82echMVJH37kwgjE/edit#gid=15442336

you (on the fence or in doubt) should also watch few videos of those 1000 km challenges in order to understand how different charging times/mindset work vs ICE

Ibrahim5

Of course you CAN drive across France in an EV but it's harder. One ten minute fill up is all an ICE needs. When you pay for autoroutes you just cruise at 130km/h for hours. You just can't do that in an EV.

Petriix

Ibrahim5 said:

Of course you CAN drive across France in an EV but it's harder. One ten minute fill up is all an ICE needs. When you pay for autoroutes you just cruise at 130km/h for hours. You just can't do that in an EV.

You can also fly across France in your own private helicopter. An ICE can't even get off the ground and it's way quicker in the helicopter. This has roughly the same relevance to the discussion.

yessuz

Ibrahim5 said:

Of course you CAN drive across France in an EV but it's harder. One ten minute fill up is all an ICE needs. When you pay for autoroutes you just cruise at 130km/h for hours. You just can't do that in an EV.

Here's another food for thought:
travel motorway, stop at services. start stop watch, walk to the toilet, do you business. walk back to the car. How much time it takes? What if you extend you stay there by another few minutes to buy a drink/coffe or a snack? Just don't tell me that you never do that

A hint - it took me 15 minutes from start to finish (park, walk to toilet, buy a snack at whsmiths, walk back to the car and stop charging). it topped up my car with 22.6 kwh (from 31% to 59%). If I stayed few more minutes until coffee is made or something, it would charge more.

The main think being - car charger when you do something at the same time.

but if you do not want to look at this this way or want to find non-objective reasons why it does not suit you - well you can do that. not a problem.

Thrugelmir

Ibrahim5 said:

Maybe that's why France is banning short flights where the train can be used instead.

In France the TGV network connects major conurbations. Building a similar network in the UK is a non starter. 

Thrugelmir

Petriix said:

As far as I'm concerned it's weak government. Proper legislation to ensure genuinely affordable, mass-market EVs were available would not really require much effort. As things stand, prices are going up and up which seems to be penalising those who wait. 

The magic money tree illusion. Where somebody else pays. 

VW have already sold their entire EV production for 2022. Why the need to subsidise purchasers? 

Ibrahim5

I remember quite a few times on the Autoroute filling up with diesel and the next stop being to fill up with diesel after having used the whole tankful without stopping. 480 miles only 6 hours. Always felt a bit disgusting but it's still nothing compared to taking the family on a plane. Obviously with an EV you just have to accept it will take longer. more overnight stops. May have to do that in the future. Just don't see any point in jumping in at the moment. Wise man just stands back and watches and changes when picture clearer and technology improved.