Is it time for restaurant tips to stop being added to bills ?

IvanOpinion

Ath_Wat said:

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

Please stop making things up, there is no legal or moral obligation to tip in the UK.
Why anybody would frequent establishments that they believe mistreat or underpay their staff is the moral issue here.

IvanOpinion

nyermen said:

Personally, i'd rather that the prices on the menu reflected a decent wage for the staff.

I would say that prices already do. When the service industry got what they asked for (i.e. a proper wage instead of working for tips) the prices did noticeably go up in restaurants (or at least those around our way).

nyermen said:

Many restaurants have a "10% service charge will be added" on the menu - and i think with the right wording, it's even mandatory as its part of the pricing.  In those cases why not just add 10% to prices, and make a point that tips are discouraged as prices represent suitable compensation to the staff.

I always felt previously that tipping was for exceptional circumstances - you're a large group (maybe a christmas party), the servers focus on you specially (maybe they've put some extra decorations about etc etc), and you want to show some extra appreciation.  Now though it feels like you could be badly served, food arrive cold, etc etc, and there's still an expectation that a tip is included. And don't get me started on when they add the % onto the bill, and when you're handed the card machine, it asks if you want to add a tip on top...

I have seen many restaurants advertising that there will be a service charge for large groups, in that case, since it is explained up front, you have to expect to pay it - as long as the service is up to a high standard. They probably do not add it to the standard prices because then they would either need two sets of menus (with the possibility of the wrong ones being issued) or smaller tables would be overpaying for their meals (irrespective of service).

The best thing to do is ignore anybody who tries to use emotional blackmail or offers bad advice in telling you that you are expected to tip in UK restaurants. If people wish to tip then fine that is up to them, but there is no obligation to.

Ath_Wat

IvanOpinion said:

Ath_Wat said:

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

Please stop making things up, there is no legal or moral obligation to tip in the UK.
Why anybody would frequent establishments that they believe mistreat or underpay their staff is the moral issue here.

Where does "mistreat and underpay their staff" come from?

The expectation and the reality in the UK is that wait staff get paid more than their salary due to tipping.  This applies whether they are on minimum wage or 100K a year.

Should tipping cease, those who are no longer happy with the pay will need to be paid more, or leave.

If some staff capable of getting paid more leave, the people they hire in their place will be worse.

IvanOpinion

Ath_Wat said:

IvanOpinion said:

Ath_Wat said:

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

Please stop making things up, there is no legal or moral obligation to tip in the UK.
Why anybody would frequent establishments that they believe mistreat or underpay their staff is the moral issue here.

Where does "mistreat and underpay their staff" come from?

The expectation and the reality in the UK is that wait staff get paid more than their salary due to tipping.  This applies whether they are on minimum wage or 100K a year.

Should tipping cease, those who are no longer happy with the pay will need to be paid more, or leave.

If some staff capable of getting paid more leave, the people they hire in their place will be worse.

As I have said you need to consider your own morality if you frequent establishments were you think the staff are being mistreated or underpaid (I know my own moral values would not allow me to do that). I think you have repeated the emotional blackmail so often that you actually believe that nonsense is true - I guess that is what this manufactured 'expectation' relies on, gullibility and adherence to an old fashioned system that was removed years ago.

By the way, I actually did leave a tip the weekend before last. I took my partner out for a meal. The bill came to £98.40 (a pleasant surprise, but then we chose not to have any wine) and, despite the service only being satisfactory, I gave them £100 and left the change (I was clearing out some old notes I got paid for a job I did. and the plonker paid me in cash, I was only too glad to get rid of it).

So I guess I am a hypocrite, I can no longer say "I haven't tipped since the wait staff got what they asked for (rather than having to work for tips)". So maybe your emotional blackmail nonsense has rubbed off on me - I am getting soft in my old age.

BlobCore

Only 20%?
lucky you!
I was in vegas last week and the card payment terminals were asking for either 20, 30 or 40% tips! Bloody crazy!

RogerBareford

Ath_Wat said:

IvanOpinion said:

Ath_Wat said:

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

Please stop making things up, there is no legal or moral obligation to tip in the UK.
Why anybody would frequent establishments that they believe mistreat or underpay their staff is the moral issue here.

Where does "mistreat and underpay their staff" come from?

The expectation and the reality in the UK is that wait staff get paid more than their salary due to tipping.  This applies whether they are on minimum wage or 100K a year.

Should tipping cease, those who are no longer happy with the pay will need to be paid more, or leave.

If some staff capable of getting paid more leave, the people they hire in their place will be worse.

Well it's not exactly a taxing job taking someone's order and bringing it to their table and taking the plates away afterwards. This is why many wait staff are often students or people in their first job with no experience who can get into the job with basically no training and do it easily.

Wait staff don't need to be paid well to attract good staff because literally anyone can do the job so they arn't in demand and even "bad" employees are capable of doing the job to the required standard.

Gavin83

RogerBareford said:

Ath_Wat said:

IvanOpinion said:

Ath_Wat said:

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

Please stop making things up, there is no legal or moral obligation to tip in the UK.
Why anybody would frequent establishments that they believe mistreat or underpay their staff is the moral issue here.

Where does "mistreat and underpay their staff" come from?

The expectation and the reality in the UK is that wait staff get paid more than their salary due to tipping.  This applies whether they are on minimum wage or 100K a year.

Should tipping cease, those who are no longer happy with the pay will need to be paid more, or leave.

If some staff capable of getting paid more leave, the people they hire in their place will be worse.

Well it's not exactly a taxing job taking someone's order and bringing it to their table and taking the plates away afterwards. This is why many wait staff are often students or people in their first job with no experience who can get into the job with basically no training and do it easily.

Wait staff don't need to be paid well to attract good staff because literally anyone can do the job so they arn't in demand and even "bad" employees are capable of doing the job to the required standard.

This would be my argument. It's not a skilled job, almost anyone could do it and therefore I'm not really sure why anyone believes it deserves more than minimum wage. Certainly deserves to be paid no more than many other minimum wage jobs. I've not really seen a good argument against this. Most arguments tend to be 'tips are expected'.

One of the consequences of higher and higher minimum wage levels is more and more jobs get pushed into that bracket. Maybe years back it would have been worth more than minimum wage but these days? I'd say not.

I'd say the exception is silver service which does require a level of knowledge and skill. However I'd expect them to already be earning above minimum wage.

SingleSue

I only ever tip if the service has been exceptional and if an optional service charge is added to the bill, I tell them to remove it. If it is a mandatory service charge, I head out of the doors to somewhere else that doesn't have that.

My tips tend to be in the area of up to £2 rather than a percentage.

I work in leisure, being paid minimum wage, we don't get tips regardless of the service as it has never been an 'expected' part of the job. Saying that, I've been given a cream cake or two, mainly because the customer wanted someone else to join in with their guilty pleasure of eating said cream cake....oh and an apple once!

Murphybear

F1shyFingers said:

Ath_Wat said:

The_Unready said:

Ath_Wat said:

Would you be happy if all restaurants ban tipping, increase prices by 10% and increase wages of staff accordingly?  Somewhere like Japan, where there is not tipping, it is because the tip is essentially included in the price.  In the USA, where tipping is expected, menu prices are much cheaper because they don't have to cover waiting staff wages.

Yes, I'd be happy with that because it would allow me to make like-for-like comparisons of restaurants based on price, for example, without me having to try and factor in unknown costs related to mandatory or optional tips, service charges and the like.

I'd be happy with that as well; just wondering whether the OP would, or whether what they really want is just cheaper meals.  because in that case there are better things to make reductions on than the wages of poorly paid staff.

We have a minimum wage law in the UK, so why do they need to be paid extra?

You don't tip the person serving you in any other establishment, so why are restaurants an exception?

I don't understand why it's so habitual in this country to tip people who are paid to deliver the things you've ordered to you.  I mean, the alternative that you go and collect it yourself?  Do you tip the postman, or the Hermes/FedEx/DHL/Yodel/DPD person?

Tipping in places like the US is habitual because of the lack of minimum wage laws in most states, which is fair enough to an extent, but it should not be required in the UK.

And frankly, most employers cream some of the top with tips anyway, the idea that it goes exclusively to servers is fantasy land.

Hairdressers usually expect a tip.  In the one I go to they cannot add a tip onto the bill, it must be paid in cash.  I quite like this because it means the tips go the the person who actually does your hair and not the owners.  I usually leave something for the girl who washes my hair as well. 

Nellymoser

Petition : Make it illegal for restaurants to automatically add gratuity to the bill

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/632357

My signing takes the count to 3859