Is it time for restaurant tips to stop being added to bills ?

Azari

misimp said:

Azari said:

misimp said:

I would also point out that there is absolutely no way  that I would fall for the old '10% is the norm' ...unless or until someone can explain why the staff in an upmarket expensive eatery are worth more than  those in a reasonably priced family restaurant

They are not worth more, but the more expensive the restaurant, the fewer tables a waiter will be expected to service, thus the number of tips they will receive will be fewer, so it's not unreasonable that each tip is larger.

You are assuming that the staff are paid the same in the expensive restaurant as in Greasy Jo's. OK

So you have two waiters servicing a table in an expensive restaurant, the bill is £400 inc drink, tip is £40. The 2 waiters deal with, say 3 table per shift tips come to £120 (on top of their actual wage)

Waitress at Greasy Jo's serves 6 tables with bill of £50, tip is £5 each - £30

I would suggest that Greasy Jo waitress works harder

Don't follow your logic I'm afraid........unless you agree to tip ALL workers on minimum pay (of which there are many who have far worse jobs than waiting table

It's a pity that you, by your own admission, don't understand the logic - it's fairly simple.

It doesn't help when you pull figures out of thin air and try to use them to make your case.

I could similarly pull figures out of thin air to make mine - but it would be idiotic.


You can make made up figures say anything you want, but you need real ones to make your case.

misimp

Azari said:

It's a pity that you, by your own admission, don't understand the logic - it's fairly simple.

It doesn't help when you pull figures out of thin air and try to use them to make your case.

I could similarly pull figures out of thin air to make mine - but it would be idiotic.


You can make made up figures say anything you want, but you need real ones to make your case.

No. I don't understand the logic at all

You appear to be telling me that if I go for a meal I am expected to pay over and above the advertised price for the food for the privilege of having someone take my order and bring the food to my table and clear the dishes afterwards

I am of the opinion that (logically) the waiter is being paid by the business to do just that - that is their job, is it not?

You compound this by further informing me that the more I pay for my food the more I should pay for this service

I receive good service from many workers on minimum pay, yet I am not expected to reward them for doing the job that they are employed to do,let alone on a percentage of the cost basis

Perhaps you could explain the 'logic' there since I genuinely don't 'understand', however 'simple' you think it is

Thanks

Murphybear

I usually tip the postman.  We live in an over 60s community and the postman will not only deliver letters but will take the outgoing mail as well.  This is not part of his job, he’s just being kind and helpful.

That’s very useful as a few of the older people have mobility problems and cannot walk to the nearest post box.


  I went to the hairdresser a few months ago.  He was lovely, friendly, arranged to keep me supplied with tea and most importantly made my hair look good.  I paid with my debit card and told them they could add on some money for the hairdresser to be shared with the young lady who had washed my hair, swept up my hair and had made the tea just how I like it.

I was very surprised when I was told no, they can’t add tips onto the bill, we have to pay by cash.  Fortunately I had some cash on me.

Azari

misimp said:

Azari said:

It's a pity that you, by your own admission, don't understand the logic - it's fairly simple.

It doesn't help when you pull figures out of thin air and try to use them to make your case.

I could similarly pull figures out of thin air to make mine - but it would be idiotic.


You can make made up figures say anything you want, but you need real ones to make your case.

No. I don't understand the logic at all

You appear to be telling me that if I go for a meal I am expected to pay over and above the advertised price for the food for the privilege of having someone take my order and bring the food to my table and clear the dishes afterwards

I am of the opinion that (logically) the waiter is being paid by the business to do just that - that is their job, is it not?

You compound this by further informing me that the more I pay for my food the more I should pay for this service

I receive good service from many workers on minimum pay, yet I am not expected to reward them for doing the job that they are employed to do,let alone on a percentage of the cost basis

Perhaps you could explain the 'logic' there since I genuinely don't 'understand', however 'simple' you think it is

Thanks

The problem seems to be that my original comment was merely an observation that waiters in more expensive restaurants tend to serve fewer covers and would tend to need larger tips for the same income. That was all.

You have expanded that to encompass the whole question of whether or not tips should be necessary or mandatory, and in addition, used some entirely made up figures to try to show that my original argument was wrong - even though is was not implying any strict correlation.

Ath_Wat

misimp said:

Azari said:

It's a pity that you, by your own admission, don't understand the logic - it's fairly simple.

It doesn't help when you pull figures out of thin air and try to use them to make your case.

I could similarly pull figures out of thin air to make mine - but it would be idiotic.


You can make made up figures say anything you want, but you need real ones to make your case.

No. I don't understand the logic at all

You appear to be telling me that if I go for a meal I am expected to pay over and above the advertised price for the food for the privilege of having someone take my order and bring the food to my table and clear the dishes afterwards

I am of the opinion that (logically) the waiter is being paid by the business to do just that - that is their job, is it not?

You compound this by further informing me that the more I pay for my food the more I should pay for this service

I receive good service from many workers on minimum pay, yet I am not expected to reward them for doing the job that they are employed to do,let alone on a percentage of the cost basis

Perhaps you could explain the 'logic' there since I genuinely don't 'understand', however 'simple' you think it is

Thanks

Yes, generally, you are, where a tipping culture exist.  You should know that before you walk through the door.  

If everyone stops tipping then the "advertised price" will rise, or wait staff will start making less money then they do now (and consequently be of lower standard, so if you think service now is so bad that you never tip, just wait).

NBLondon

Azari said:

The problem seems to be that my original comment was merely an observation that waiters in more expensive restaurants tend to serve fewer covers and would tend to need larger tips for the same income. That was all.

I was assuming that the waiter in a more expensive restaurant also justifies the higher tip by being more knowledgeable about the food, able to advice on accompaniments etc.   In some cases, people pay more for what they consider a higher level of service (or obsequiousness) .

nyermen

Personally, i'd rather that the prices on the menu reflected a decent wage for the staff.

Many restaurants have a "10% service charge will be added" on the menu - and i think with the right wording, it's even mandatory as its part of the pricing.  In those cases why not just add 10% to prices, and make a point that tips are discouraged as prices represent suitable compensation to the staff.

I always felt previously that tipping was for exceptional circumstances - you're a large group (maybe a christmas party), the servers focus on you specially (maybe they've put some extra decorations about etc etc), and you want to show some extra appreciation.  Now though it feels like you could be badly served, food arrive cold, etc etc, and there's still an expectation that a tip is included. And don't get me started on when they add the % onto the bill, and when you're handed the card machine, it asks if you want to add a tip on top...

There are cases where I feel a thank you is warranted - eg. the workmen near my house who were doing some utility digging very kindly took down my unwanted front wall, and even took the rubble away (hampshire CC charge a fortune for masonry at the dump, so I was very happy).  (Tried to offer them a token of thanks, and they even said no!)

AmberStripes

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

Ath_Wat

AmberStripes said:

When a tip is added to my bill automatically I never pay it.

Adding it automatically feels like coercion. Restauranteurs bank on the British trait of not wanting to cause a fuss as a way to make a quick buck. It's wrong.

I'll gladly pay a tip if I get great service but I wont be bullied in to it.

Restaurants relying on this to pay their biggest overhead (staff) is bad business.

This is the problem.  You are meant to tip if you just get decent service.

If people won't tip unless they get great service, then in order for wait staff wages not to drop, they have to start adding it onto the bill automatically.  If people stop paying that, they will just up the prices by 10% and not tell you.

Which isn't a bad place to get to.

JGB1955

We recently went for a special meal for our wedding anniversary.  It was SO refreshing to be presented with a bill which matched the cost of the tasting menu plus wine flight.  No service charge added - nada!  My husband likes to pay the 'tip' in cash, in the (perhaps forlorn) hope that the cash will actually find its way to those who have served us.  I paid the £270 - I assume my OH left £30!