Utility Point => EDF - Progress with dates on EDF web-site (new?)

Gerry1

Inigo_Montoya said:

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time

From Ofgem

Doc_N

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

  They still claim that they're not responsible for refunds of UP credit balances where the supply was switched to another supplier before EDF formally commenced the billing procedure

They sent the email below basically saying the opposite (the email is correct as thats what the Ofgem rules state)    Update for Utility Point customers who've chosen another supplier

After Utility Point stopped trading, Ofgem (the industry regulator) chose EDF to take responsibility for their customers on 18 September – even those who didn't want to stay with us. It looks like you've decided to switch supplier so we wanted to reassure you that you'll get any money owed to you, and there’s nothing you need to do now. What happens next? We'll work with Utility Point to generate your final closing account balance which they will send to you.

If you left before 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to the date you joined another supplier. If you left after 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to 18 September; then charges from EDF up to the date you joined your new supplier.

You'll be paid any money owed to you If you're owed any money it'll be refunded to you by cheque. This will take some time, so thanks for bearing with us.

Quite - but they're now saying that it's the administrators of UP that are responsible for repaying the overpayment.  Not EDF.  And the Energy Ombudsman is accepting that.  Something very bizarre is going on here.

So am I correct in assuming you have complaint with the Ombudsman where the Ombusdman has stated that ? 

Thats quite worrying if so as one of the UP accounts I managed has a £400+ credit balance (where I left for another supplier like yourself)

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time 

That is, as I understand it, the correct position - there's no question as to the safety of the credit balance, and it's the SOLR (EDF here) that's responsible for paying it.

According to the Energy Ombudsman, however (because EDF have objected to the complaint and the Ombudsman has upheld that objection):

".........this confirms that your energy supply was  transferred directly from Utility Point to British Gas on 10 October so it is correct that it was never with EDF Energy.  Our advice to query the credit balance with the administrators of Utility Point was therefore correct. 

Rob Croxen, Paul Berkovi and Mark Firmin of Alvarez & Marsal Europe have been appointed as joint administrators should you wish to contact them directly."

Words fail me - we have here an Ombudsman service, appointed by Ofcom, that won't accept a complaint because the company complained about manages to pull the wool over its eyes and it doesn't even understand the SOLR arrangements.

booshya

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

  They still claim that they're not responsible for refunds of UP credit balances where the supply was switched to another supplier before EDF formally commenced the billing procedure

They sent the email below basically saying the opposite (the email is correct as thats what the Ofgem rules state)    Update for Utility Point customers who've chosen another supplier

After Utility Point stopped trading, Ofgem (the industry regulator) chose EDF to take responsibility for their customers on 18 September – even those who didn't want to stay with us. It looks like you've decided to switch supplier so we wanted to reassure you that you'll get any money owed to you, and there’s nothing you need to do now. What happens next? We'll work with Utility Point to generate your final closing account balance which they will send to you.

If you left before 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to the date you joined another supplier. If you left after 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to 18 September; then charges from EDF up to the date you joined your new supplier.

You'll be paid any money owed to you If you're owed any money it'll be refunded to you by cheque. This will take some time, so thanks for bearing with us.

Quite - but they're now saying that it's the administrators of UP that are responsible for repaying the overpayment.  Not EDF.  And the Energy Ombudsman is accepting that.  Something very bizarre is going on here.

So am I correct in assuming you have complaint with the Ombudsman where the Ombusdman has stated that ? 

Thats quite worrying if so as one of the UP accounts I managed has a £400+ credit balance (where I left for another supplier like yourself)

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time 

That is, as I understand it, the correct position - there's no question as to the safety of the credit balance, and it's the SOLR (EDF here) that's responsible for paying it.

According to the Energy Ombudsman, however (because EDF have objected to the complaint and the Ombudsman has upheld that objection):

".........this confirms that your energy supply was  transferred directly from Utility Point to British Gas on 10 October so it is correct that it was never with EDF Energy.  Our advice to query the credit balance with the administrators of Utility Point was therefore correct. 

Rob Croxen, Paul Berkovi and Mark Firmin of Alvarez & Marsal Europe have been appointed as joint administrators should you wish to contact them directly."

Words fail me - we have here an Ombudsman service, appointed by Ofcom, that won't accept a complaint because the company complained about manages to pull the wool over its eyes and it doesn't even understand the SOLR arrangements.

Where a supplier objects to a complaint raised by a consumer through the ombudsman service, the consumer is given a further, time limited opportunity to add further evidence.

In the circumstance you describe, I would have added the evidence that Ofgem ordered EDF to take over the supplies of UP as from 18 September 2021
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-edf-take-customers-utility-point

and although not necessarily needed, I would also be strongly inclined to provide the evidence that Ofgem revoked UP's supply licences on the same date
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-electricity-supply-licence
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-gas-supply-licence

You could probably still challenge the decision and ask it to be reviewed by the ombudsman proper, adding the above evidence
- although you may need to explain why it wasn't provided earlier.

Doc_N

booshya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

  They still claim that they're not responsible for refunds of UP credit balances where the supply was switched to another supplier before EDF formally commenced the billing procedure

They sent the email below basically saying the opposite (the email is correct as thats what the Ofgem rules state)    Update for Utility Point customers who've chosen another supplier

After Utility Point stopped trading, Ofgem (the industry regulator) chose EDF to take responsibility for their customers on 18 September – even those who didn't want to stay with us. It looks like you've decided to switch supplier so we wanted to reassure you that you'll get any money owed to you, and there’s nothing you need to do now. What happens next? We'll work with Utility Point to generate your final closing account balance which they will send to you.

If you left before 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to the date you joined another supplier. If you left after 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to 18 September; then charges from EDF up to the date you joined your new supplier.

You'll be paid any money owed to you If you're owed any money it'll be refunded to you by cheque. This will take some time, so thanks for bearing with us.

Quite - but they're now saying that it's the administrators of UP that are responsible for repaying the overpayment.  Not EDF.  And the Energy Ombudsman is accepting that.  Something very bizarre is going on here.

So am I correct in assuming you have complaint with the Ombudsman where the Ombusdman has stated that ? 

Thats quite worrying if so as one of the UP accounts I managed has a £400+ credit balance (where I left for another supplier like yourself)

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time 

That is, as I understand it, the correct position - there's no question as to the safety of the credit balance, and it's the SOLR (EDF here) that's responsible for paying it.

According to the Energy Ombudsman, however (because EDF have objected to the complaint and the Ombudsman has upheld that objection):

".........this confirms that your energy supply was  transferred directly from Utility Point to British Gas on 10 October so it is correct that it was never with EDF Energy.  Our advice to query the credit balance with the administrators of Utility Point was therefore correct. 

Rob Croxen, Paul Berkovi and Mark Firmin of Alvarez & Marsal Europe have been appointed as joint administrators should you wish to contact them directly."

Words fail me - we have here an Ombudsman service, appointed by Ofcom, that won't accept a complaint because the company complained about manages to pull the wool over its eyes and it doesn't even understand the SOLR arrangements.

Where a supplier objects to a complaint raised by a consumer through the ombudsman service, the consumer is given a further, time limited opportunity to add further evidence.

In the circumstance you describe, I would have added the evidence that Ofgem ordered EDF to take over the supplies of UP as from 18 September 2021
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-edf-take-customers-utility-point

and although not necessarily needed, I would also be strongly inclined to provide the evidence that Ofgem revoked UP's supply licences on the same date
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-electricity-supply-licence
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-gas-supply-licence

 

That’s what you’d expect.  The reality, though, was that the Energy Ombudsman closed the complaint without allowing me any opportunity whatever to comment on EDF’s false claim.

We have now gone through the first stage of the complaint process against the Energy Ombudsman itself, but they still maintain, bizarrely, that their decision was correct.

I now have no confidence whatever in the Ombudsman, which is simply an outfit calling itself Ombudsman Services and covering all sorts of disputes, including parking charge appeals. Frankly, it’s a Mickey Mouse outfit which clearly doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing.

Further complaint route against the Energy Ombudsman now being started, but it’s a ridiculous waste of everybody’s time on such a basic issue as this.

booshya

Doc_N said:

booshya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

  They still claim that they're not responsible for refunds of UP credit balances where the supply was switched to another supplier before EDF formally commenced the billing procedure

They sent the email below basically saying the opposite (the email is correct as thats what the Ofgem rules state)    Update for Utility Point customers who've chosen another supplier

After Utility Point stopped trading, Ofgem (the industry regulator) chose EDF to take responsibility for their customers on 18 September – even those who didn't want to stay with us. It looks like you've decided to switch supplier so we wanted to reassure you that you'll get any money owed to you, and there’s nothing you need to do now. What happens next? We'll work with Utility Point to generate your final closing account balance which they will send to you.

If you left before 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to the date you joined another supplier. If you left after 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to 18 September; then charges from EDF up to the date you joined your new supplier.

You'll be paid any money owed to you If you're owed any money it'll be refunded to you by cheque. This will take some time, so thanks for bearing with us.

Quite - but they're now saying that it's the administrators of UP that are responsible for repaying the overpayment.  Not EDF.  And the Energy Ombudsman is accepting that.  Something very bizarre is going on here.

So am I correct in assuming you have complaint with the Ombudsman where the Ombusdman has stated that ? 

Thats quite worrying if so as one of the UP accounts I managed has a £400+ credit balance (where I left for another supplier like yourself)

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time 

That is, as I understand it, the correct position - there's no question as to the safety of the credit balance, and it's the SOLR (EDF here) that's responsible for paying it.

According to the Energy Ombudsman, however (because EDF have objected to the complaint and the Ombudsman has upheld that objection):

".........this confirms that your energy supply was  transferred directly from Utility Point to British Gas on 10 October so it is correct that it was never with EDF Energy.  Our advice to query the credit balance with the administrators of Utility Point was therefore correct. 

Rob Croxen, Paul Berkovi and Mark Firmin of Alvarez & Marsal Europe have been appointed as joint administrators should you wish to contact them directly."

Words fail me - we have here an Ombudsman service, appointed by Ofcom, that won't accept a complaint because the company complained about manages to pull the wool over its eyes and it doesn't even understand the SOLR arrangements.

Where a supplier objects to a complaint raised by a consumer through the ombudsman service, the consumer is given a further, time limited opportunity to add further evidence.

In the circumstance you describe, I would have added the evidence that Ofgem ordered EDF to take over the supplies of UP as from 18 September 2021
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-edf-take-customers-utility-point

and although not necessarily needed, I would also be strongly inclined to provide the evidence that Ofgem revoked UP's supply licences on the same date
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-electricity-supply-licence
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-gas-supply-licence

 

That’s what you’d expect.  The reality, though, was that the Energy Ombudsman closed the complaint without allowing me any opportunity whatever to comment on EDF’s false claim.

We have now gone through the first stage of the complaint process against the Energy Ombudsman itself, but they still maintain, bizarrely, that their decision was correct.

I now have no confidence whatever in the Ombudsman, which is simply an outfit calling itself Ombudsman Services and covering all sorts of disputes, including parking charge appeals. Frankly, it’s a Mickey Mouse outfit which clearly doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing.

Further complaint route against the Energy Ombudsman now being started, but it’s a ridiculous waste of everybody’s time on such a basic issue as this.

Whilst you can complain to the OS about the way they handled your account, so in this case bizarelly not allowing you the opportunity you say to counter any challenge the supplier made, or allow the OS decision to be re-checked by the Ombudman proper, in what is essentially a fully automated system nowadays, you cannot complain to the ombudsman over the actual decision they have made.

If, as you say, you have now raised another complaint about the OS over the same case, expect it to be closed as a duplicate.

Doc_N

booshya said:

Doc_N said:

booshya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

Inigo_Montoya said:

Doc_N said:

  They still claim that they're not responsible for refunds of UP credit balances where the supply was switched to another supplier before EDF formally commenced the billing procedure

They sent the email below basically saying the opposite (the email is correct as thats what the Ofgem rules state)    Update for Utility Point customers who've chosen another supplier

After Utility Point stopped trading, Ofgem (the industry regulator) chose EDF to take responsibility for their customers on 18 September – even those who didn't want to stay with us. It looks like you've decided to switch supplier so we wanted to reassure you that you'll get any money owed to you, and there’s nothing you need to do now. What happens next? We'll work with Utility Point to generate your final closing account balance which they will send to you.

If you left before 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to the date you joined another supplier. If you left after 18 September Your final closing account statement will show: charges from Utility Point up to 18 September; then charges from EDF up to the date you joined your new supplier.

You'll be paid any money owed to you If you're owed any money it'll be refunded to you by cheque. This will take some time, so thanks for bearing with us.

Quite - but they're now saying that it's the administrators of UP that are responsible for repaying the overpayment.  Not EDF.  And the Energy Ombudsman is accepting that.  Something very bizarre is going on here.

So am I correct in assuming you have complaint with the Ombudsman where the Ombusdman has stated that ? 

Thats quite worrying if so as one of the UP accounts I managed has a £400+ credit balance (where I left for another supplier like yourself)

I vaguely recall reading on the Ofgem website that its the SOLR who is responsible for refunding the credit balance even if you left for another supplier - I will have to see if I can hunt down the information again when I have some spare time 

That is, as I understand it, the correct position - there's no question as to the safety of the credit balance, and it's the SOLR (EDF here) that's responsible for paying it.

According to the Energy Ombudsman, however (because EDF have objected to the complaint and the Ombudsman has upheld that objection):

".........this confirms that your energy supply was  transferred directly from Utility Point to British Gas on 10 October so it is correct that it was never with EDF Energy.  Our advice to query the credit balance with the administrators of Utility Point was therefore correct. 

Rob Croxen, Paul Berkovi and Mark Firmin of Alvarez & Marsal Europe have been appointed as joint administrators should you wish to contact them directly."

Words fail me - we have here an Ombudsman service, appointed by Ofcom, that won't accept a complaint because the company complained about manages to pull the wool over its eyes and it doesn't even understand the SOLR arrangements.

Where a supplier objects to a complaint raised by a consumer through the ombudsman service, the consumer is given a further, time limited opportunity to add further evidence.

In the circumstance you describe, I would have added the evidence that Ofgem ordered EDF to take over the supplies of UP as from 18 September 2021
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-edf-take-customers-utility-point

and although not necessarily needed, I would also be strongly inclined to provide the evidence that Ofgem revoked UP's supply licences on the same date
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-electricity-supply-licence
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/utility-point-limited-notice-revocation-gas-supply-licence

 

That’s what you’d expect.  The reality, though, was that the Energy Ombudsman closed the complaint without allowing me any opportunity whatever to comment on EDF’s false claim.

We have now gone through the first stage of the complaint process against the Energy Ombudsman itself, but they still maintain, bizarrely, that their decision was correct.

I now have no confidence whatever in the Ombudsman, which is simply an outfit calling itself Ombudsman Services and covering all sorts of disputes, including parking charge appeals. Frankly, it’s a Mickey Mouse outfit which clearly doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing.

Further complaint route against the Energy Ombudsman now being started, but it’s a ridiculous waste of everybody’s time on such a basic issue as this.

Whilst you can complain to the OS about the way they handled your account, so in this case bizarelly not allowing you the opportunity you say to counter any challenge the supplier made, or allow the OS decision to be re-checked by the Ombudman proper, in what is essentially a fully automated system nowadays, you cannot complain to the ombudsman over the actual decision they have made.

If, as you say, you have now raised another complaint about the OS over the same case, expect it to be closed as a duplicate.

The further complaint route mentioned was part of the complaints process. You have 28 days from the first decision (which was that they acted correctly in closing the EDF complaint without looking at it) to escalate it.

There is no actual Ombudsman, as such - it’s just a clerical processing centre, but the complaint has been examined and considered.

Ultimately, the process takes the complaint to the Independent Assessor for Ombudsman Services, so unless they see sense and look at the facts, instead of just meekly doing what EDF tells them to do, that’s where it’s going.

Ultimately, it strikes me that if Ombudsman Services is that much in league with the people who pay it that it just accepts what they say, even when it’s patently wrong, Ofgem should be reconsidering their suitability to do the job.

Inigo_Montoya

anyway  I hope it works out in the end for your sake & also for the rest of us in the same situation

If you dont get the money back in the end then I'd suggest trying raising the issue with, for example, the people who run this website

the Ombudman knows full well that the administrators will not pay out any credit balances themselves so the ruling you received is quite shocking

The whole point of the SOLR process is to protect ALL customers credit balances whatever the circumstance

I am also trying to wrangle an £800+ refund from Shell, the SoLR for Green & that so far it is going OK as they have confirmed they have "asked the finance department to raise a cheque"

In that case I actually left Green just BEFORE the date Shell took over so according to your wrong & unfair  Ombudsman ruling I should have to (vainly) chase the administrators for the refund - however when the administrators sent me the final Green bill they categorically said Green (in adminstration) would not be refunding the credit balance 

Doc_N

Inigo_Montoya said:

anyway  I hope it works out in the end for your sake & also for the rest of us in the same situation

If you dont get the money back in the end then I'd suggest trying raising the issue with, for example, the people who run this website

the Ombudman knows full well that the administrators will not pay out any credit balances themselves so the ruling you received is quite shocking

The whole point of the SOLR process is to protect ALL customers credit balances whatever the circumstance

I am also trying to wrangle an £800+ refund from Shell, the SoLR for Green & that so far it is going OK as they have confirmed they have "asked the finance department to raise a cheque"

In that case I actually left Green just BEFORE the date Shell took over so according to your wrong & unfair  Ombudsman ruling I should have to (vainly) chase the administrators for the refund - however when the administrators sent me the final Green bill they categorically said Green (in adminstration) would not be refunding the credit balance 

I think we both know that the money is safe, and will eventually be repaid. I’ve no concerns at all about the £800 I’m due.

However, I do have serious issues with a company such as EDF lying to customers and to the Energy Ombudsman - and, worse still, a so-called Ombudsman going along with the lies and pushing out completely false information.

Curiousgirl1

@Doc_N. What exactly was your complaint to the ombudsman? I thought from your previous posts that it was because EDF  hadn’t refunded your credit from UP quick enough for you even though they haven’t finalised any accounts yet or transferred any balances or am I wrong? 

Doc_N

Curiousgirl1 said:

@Doc_N. What exactly was your complaint to the ombudsman? I thought from your previous posts that it was because EDF  hadn’t refunded your credit from UP quick enough for you even though they haven’t finalised any accounts yet or transferred any balances or am I wrong? 

The essence of the complaint is that in what’s now almost three months, EDF have failed to take appropriate action to expedite the UP overpayment amounting to several hundred pounds.  It’s a little more complex than that, because it includes references to assurances from EDF that if certain information was provided they’d make the repayment. It was - they refused to.

EDF managed to persuade the EO to close the complaint on the false assurance, despite the facts, that they have at no point been my supplier - even though they have said they’ll be billing me for that period.