Tiling Job - Tiles not straight

DB1904

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Section62 said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

S62, based on the information we have been given, which layout do you consider to be better? More correct. The one you'd wish to have been left with?

The original tiler's or the subsequent tiler's?

And by roughly what factor.

Arguments could be made for either.  The choice is a personal one, and my view isn't relevant.

There are only two that actually count - Jack (and his wife together), and the tiler's.  And a third - the judge - if it goes that far.


Given the BiB question, I think it is also worth pointing out (I'd lost the will to do so yesterday) that we now know that the current tiler wasn't the one who took the old tiles up.  Therefore he wasn't in a position to know that was how it was done previously, or to suspect that was what Jack wanted put back.

He had a 'blank canvas' to work with.

So the BiB question is moot - unless Jack showed the tiler pictures of the previous job and said 'please do it like this'.

I don't think it's moot at all. But you appear to be suggesting that the two layouts have equal validity; "It's a personal choice"?

And - correct me if I'm wrong - I don't think you've suggested that the tiler should have discussed these two 'equally-valid' options with his customer beforehand?

And yet I have filled a large portion of a reply with the numerous quotes from this thread that appear to imply that Jack should have made himself involved, before and during the work, and - if he didn't - to not be then surprised if it came back to bite him. 

Is that a fair summation?

That's a fair assessment given it was important to have it laid the way the original floor was.  The tiler used a laser not a crystal ball. 

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I really don't think this discussion is pointless at all, since much of it appears to suggest - as I've said ad infinitum - some responsibility or culpability on the customer if the pro makes a mistake.

That is surely worthy of discussion in its own right?

'Pointless' in the sense that having a discussion when key facts are unknown doesn't make much sense.  55mm deviation in a metre is a lot, 55mm deviation in 5m isn't so much.  55mm deviation in 10m is hardly perceptible.

Without quantitative facts, discussion is opinion based... and personal opinions at that.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Blimey, calculations! Approaching or standing in a doorway, looking into a room, how aware would a mobile human be of a 12mm line deviation per metre run? Would they 'clock' it? Would they even make it out if it were pointed out to them?

Well, yeah, that is kind of the point. 12mm/m isn't that big a deal for most people.  But somehow we are now here on page 16.

And it gets tougher to argue that 12mm/m is an unacceptable 'mistake' when at the same time you are saying ~7.4mm/m is absolutely Ok.

I can envision the judge closely studying the flooring in the court, trying to figure out if a ~4.6mm/m difference between the two is worth a four-figure claim.  Then getting distracted wondering if it is nearly lunchtime yet.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

This is not a 'personal choice'. The tiler made a mistake. Even if he still truly believes he didn't, even if he has convinced himself he made the right choice, he didn't. If he carries on doing this, he's a twit.

No matter how many times something is said, it doesn't become a fact if it isn't.

Neither you nor I know what the tiler thought. We can only see the result.  And make our individual assumptions.

Edit:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

 

Is that a fair summation?

No.

Jeepers_Creepers

Doozergirl said:

Jeepers, there is always going to be something slightly out of line.  But yes, I think a straight line of perspective is possibly the most important element because it is the line that is perceived most commonly.  My guests aren't staring at the line of the tiles against walls but they may well notice if the tiles ran at a different angle to the path to the line from the front door  through the house.  

This is a great conversation, Doozer

Perspective is, of course, a huge aspect of archi and flooring. The point I'm trying to make is, when you open your door to your guests and they look down your hallway and take in this wonderful long expanse of flooring, they will, of course, get a tingle from the perspective, the natural illusion of the tile lines narrowing as they head off into the vast expanse.

What they wouldn't notice or detect is if all your tiles were actually sitting at a 2 degree angle off the straight hallway. They would still see 'perspective'. It would still look equally amazing. They see the same series of lines that they know are parallel, but which are 'tapering' due to perspective - the ones to the sides are seemingly tapered at different, and increasing, angles. If you gave them all a tug and shifted them all clock or anti by a couple of degrees, they wouldn't notice - it's still wonderful perspective.

UNTIL they stepped inside and looked down at the walls and skirting boards. Then they would notice any deviation, any squint, because they now have a reference point to the sides, along its length, from 'above'. The nearest grout/T&G line would be noticeably 'off' compared to the reference point of the wall.

Go on - go out the back way, come in the front and...

Doozergirl

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Doozergirl said:

Jeepers, there is always going to be something slightly out of line.  But yes, I think a straight line of perspective is possibly the most important element because it is the line that is perceived most commonly.  My guests aren't staring at the line of the tiles against walls but they may well notice if the tiles ran at a different angle to the path to the line from the front door  through the house.  

This is a great conversation, Doozer

Perspective is, of course, a huge aspect of archi and flooring. The point I'm trying to make is, when you open your door to your guests and they look down your hallway and take in this wonderful long expanse of flooring, they will, of course, get a tingle from the perspective, the natural illusion of the tile lines narrowing as they head off into the vast expanse.

What they wouldn't notice or detect is if all your tiles were actually sitting at a 2 degree angle off the straight hallway. They would still see 'perspective'. It would still look equally amazing.

UNTIL they stepped inside and looked down at the walls and skirting boards. Then they would notice any deviation. Any squint.

Go on - go out the back way, come in the front and...

Exactly.  So if your walls aren't square then you might have it straight down the hall to one wall, slightly off the other and then off to the kick plates once it hits the kitchen... 

But the overall impression is correct. 

You cannot have it perfect, so choose a line and then argue that mine is wrong in front of a judge...   

Jeepers_Creepers

Oh, ok then

DB1904

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Oh, ok then

Are you done with you're argument the tiler made a mistake?