Tiling Job - Tiles not straight

Jack_Bauer

Hi everyone,

Our kitchen nightmare continues. It's been 7 months since we first identified some problems in our kitchen (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6240175/complex-kitchen-floor-tiling-repair-job-uneven-floor-what-should-i-do/p1 and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6243681/severe-water-damage-in-kitchen-after-radiator-power-flush/p1) and since then we have spent £5500 getting it all fixed. We've had the timber replaced under the units whilst supporting the granite worktop. We've had damp proofing done in the external walls, timber floor sprayed for rot and some new air bricks put in the back. We've just had a tiler re-tile the kitchen floor including underfloor heating (UFH) and we've noticed some problems.

We went for a very reputable and highly reviewed tiler to do our tiling work and we have noticed a couple of issues in the final result. Firstly the tiles are not straight with regards to the hallway, or the kitchen units. There are slightly slanted but it is noticeable to a details person like myself. The second issue is that the grout colour is not uniform across the kitchen. Pictures below.

When we queried our tiler he told me the deviation is a result of the room not being a perfect square/rectangle and that he used a laser to line it all up but I don't buy that. If the tiles were laid just a few degree rotated to the right, they would all be lined up perfectly with both the hallway and the units. He has suggested there is no way to straighten it without it all being ripped up. Tiles, adhesive, matting and the UFH cabling. He clearly doesn't want to do that. He has told me that I should have told him how to tile straight and against which reference which I find ridiculous, firstly because we were never consulted about this. He did the job with very little input from us, and secondly, I would have thought it obvious that the tiles should line up to the units in the kitchen. Regarding the grout colour, he has suggested that this is called laitance (fine crust) and that the grout colour will settle after a few mops, but we aren't so sure.

Needless to say, we're disappointed. It's been a long slog to get to this point and feel like our kitchen floor isn't as we'd imagined it would be. My wife is pregnant and tired and just wants to move into our new home. She's suggested we ask for a discount and live with the slight tile imperfections but something about that doesn't sit well with me since it's been such a journey to get to this place. I don't feel like capitulating, considering the length of time and money we have spent to get to this point. It should be perfect.

We were wondering what we should do. We paid the tiler an initial £600 deposit so he could buy the materials. We also paid £500 for the tiles which we bought ourselves separately. The outstanding balance to the tiler is £1500 which he is now asking for.

We would love some advice on what we should do and what our options are.

Thank you.

Jeepers_Creepers

Argh, that's so annoying, when the job otherwise looks really lovely.

That LH grout line (first 2 pics), what distance is it from the kitchen unit faces throughout its length? How much does it 'slant away' from the unit faces by over its length?

tacpot12

You certainly have the option to ask for a discount due to the tiles not being laid square. You also have the option to not pay at all if the floor isn't completely relaid, but I am inclined to think that a court may regard this as disproportionate. Whether a court agrees with you will depend to some degree on how far they from being correct. 

What you do may uultimately depend on whether you can live with the tiles as they are. I think at the moment you are hyperstimulated because of the problems you have had, and might be having trouble seeing this as your friends and family would see the floor. 

I agree that it was not your job to specify the reference UNLESS you wanted the reference to be something other than the length of the room. A professional tiler would assume that the tiles should be laid parallel to the units running along the long dimension of room. 

The grout colour should be possible to correct quite easily and I would expect the tiler would be happy to do this if asked, providing you are reasonable about the amount of discount you ask for. If the floor is going to be redone, just make sure the tiler knows that the grout colour was unacceptably uneven. (It is unacceptably uneven.) 

benson1980

For me, this is the basics of tiling and just lazy and evidences a desire to just get the job finished as quickly as possible. I’m laying floor tiles at the moment (no interest in taking my chances with a tradesperson for exactly this reason) and it takes a degree of time and effort measuring and battening/marking up the floor to ensure they line up with the bordering walls, or units in your case. If this were not possible due to the walls being non parallel I’d expect this to be pointed out. 

Personally, I’d not pay him and make it his problem to sort out if he wants the remaining balance as I completely understand why that is grating on you where the lines don’t match up.

NSG666

Odd what the tiler has done as like others have said, if the room is out of square you make the 'out of square' run in the least obvious position.
I'd have expected the tiles to run parallel to the LH side of your picture but it looks like he might have followed the line of the bay window? Only you know what the other side of the room would have looked like had he followed the kitchen units.
The tiles look to be laid flat and in straight lines and presumably squared up to something so it surely becomes subjective as to whether he's used the correct reference point and therefore why you should not pay him in full (from your pics I agree with you but just playing devil's advocate).
There might be even be an argument to say if you want it different then you have to pay.

Is the tape on the floor significant?

daivid

I would have thought the tiles should be laid square to the kitchen units. I take it they were in place before the tiler started?

The grout would be an easy(ish) fix, the off colour grout could be scraped out and replaced. The lining up of the tiles would need a full rip out and replace.

Your photos do make it look worse than in real life due to the converging parallels effect. If you measure the distance from the units to the first tile line how much does that vary across the runs of units (and over what distance)?

tacpot12

daivid said:

I would have thought the tiles should be laid square to the kitchen units. I take it they were in place before the tiler started?

The grout would be an easy(ish) fix, the off colour grout could be scraped out and replaced. The lining up of the tiles would need a full rip out and replace.

Your photos do make it look worse than in real life due to the converging parallels effect. If you measure the distance from the units to the first tile line how much does that vary across the runs of units (and over what distance)?

You can see that the units were in place before the tiles were laid. 

Jeepers_Creepers

daivid said:

If you measure the distance from the units to the first tile line how much does that vary across the runs of units (and over what distance)?

I've asked this, and I think the answer will determine what chance of success Jack will have with making a claim.

rob7475

white grout in a kitchen - you're brave. Make sure the grout gets sealed otherwise any spills may stain it.

As for it being out of line - is it worth the hassle of having it ripped up for a small issue? Could you maybe offset the plinth slightly when fitting to match the grout line?

Maybe take it as a bit of a lesson - tradespeople need to be managed. If you leave them to it without making your expectations clear, your setting yourselp up for problems.

Jeepers_Creepers

We still need to know just how far 'out' the grout line is in relation to the unit fronts.

Ganga

NSG666 said:

Odd what the tiler has done as like others have said, if the room is out of square you make the 'out of square' run in the least obvious position.
I'd have expected the tiles to run parallel to the LH side of your picture but it looks like he might have followed the line of the bay window? Only you know what the other side of the room would have looked like had he followed the kitchen units.
The tiles look to be laid flat and in straight lines and presumably squared up to something so it surely becomes subjective as to whether he's used the correct reference point and therefore why you should not pay him in full (from your pics I agree with you but just playing devil's advocate).
There might be even be an argument to say if you want it different then you have to pay.

Is the tape on the floor significant?

I take its the floor plan for an island or the kitchen furniture.