Tiling Job - Tiles not straight

Jack_Bauer

Thank you all for the feedback and questions. Answers below:

In terms of distance from the units to the grout lines, on the left hand side of the kitchen (hob side) if we take the furthest unit, the grout line is 25cm away from the unit. If we take the closest unit (unit nearest the hallway), the grout line is 31cm away from the unit.

When it comes to the units at the back wall, the grout line from the left most unit is 39cm away from from the unit. On the right most unit (by the garden door), the grout line is 43.5cm away.

Clearly the tiles are not squared at all to any of my units, creating a very visible slant.

The masking tape on the floor is for our reference. We are looking to buy a fridge and a dining table (this is out first house) and therefore we are using the tape to gauge how much space is available if we bought the items we have liked so far. The smallest rectangle in the center is for a 160cmx90cm dining table and the outer rectangle is 65cm outside of the inner rectangle to represent chair clearance. The masking tape closest the door is for the fridge, representing the space when the fridge doors are closed and when the doors are open.

Coincidentally, we laid the masking tape for the dining table following the grout lines and it makes the slanted tiles that much more apparent.

The tiles should definitely have been laid parallel to the units. What is grinding to me most is that if they were, EVERYTHING would be lined up. The tiles would line up to the units, the hallway wooden flooring, and all 4 of the walls, everything. Right now, the tiles line up to nothing. As I said, when I asked the tiler for the reference point, I got a lot of fluff about lasers, not a perfect room etc but nothing that made any sense and no clear reference point.

We have dove grey grout in the kitchen. The bits where it looks white is basically what we have complained about, since it should all be grey grout.

I've included some further pictures below, to show how the tiles line up to none of our walls. It's even more apparent when looking at how they appear on the right side wall where our bay window is.

The picture below shows the tiles against the wall closest to the hallway. As you can see, they are not flush and the tiler has in fact used grout to fill the increasing gap he created towards the top. If he had just laid the tiles flush/straight to this wall, the tiles all would have been straight and lined up to all my other walls.

The effect is even more pronounced when you look at my Bay Window which is the right hand side of my kitchen. Take a look at where the grout line meets the Bay Window. Again, if he has just laid the tiles flush/straight against the back wall, the Bay Window would have lined up.

Lastly the kitchen as a whole. You can clearly see it all slanted with reference to the units, and the walls. He simply screwed up and didn't lay it straight.

Hope that helps.

On a separate note, my tilers electrician doesn't seem to have installed the thermostat into the wall properly. It moves and he has made it stuck into the base plate without making it sit flush. I'm going to try and pry it open and fix it in properly tonight but just goes to show, it all seems rushed.

Just to mention it again, so far we have given the tiler £661.63 and we spent £426.74 separately on the tiles and sealant. The tiler is asking us for £1485 outstanding balance and he wants it by Friday. I'm thinking I offer him half and call it a day. Either that or he rips it all up and does it properly if he wants the full balance. Not sure what to do

Ballymoney

This may be a dumb point to make (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but, assuming the root cause of this is because your kitchen isn't completely square/rectangular, if the tiles lined up to the kitchen cabinets would this not just mean they don't line up with the opposite wall? 

Unless your kitchen units are perfectly square with the opposing walls the tiles will surely have to be slightly off somewhere? No?

Working_Mum

Ballymoney said:

This may be a dumb point to make (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but, assuming the root cause of this is because your kitchen isn't completely square/rectangular, if the tiles lined up to the kitchen cabinets would this not just mean they don't line up with the opposite wall? 

Unless your kitchen units are perfectly square with the opposing walls the tiles will surely have to be slightly off somewhere? No?

I think this is really valid - there is a visual compromise somewhere.

Having an old house is a bit of a love affair and you have to turn a blind eye to some of the imperfections, lumps and bumps I have found over the years!!

I had a wonky kitchen and once my furniture was in, I was living in the space and using it I don't even notice the unaligned flooring.

I hope you get it resolved to a level you're happy with @J@Jack_Bauer and can start to enjoy all of the hard work which has clearly gone into sorting your home.

NeverTooLate

Jack_Bauer said:

Thank you all for the feedback and questions. Answers below:

We have dove grey grout in the kitchen. The bits where it looks white is basically what we have complained about, since it should all be grey grout.

We had chosen a light grey grout on our tiled floor. The installers used too much water to wipe away the excess which also takes away the grout dye and you're left with white. Luckily for us they had removed the same amount of dye everywhere so at least it wasn't patchy like yours, but we were left with white instead of grey grout.

Basically, it's poor installation.

On the plus side, the white grout is now so dirty it's all a kind of grey colour

Jack_Bauer

Ballymoney said:

This may be a dumb point to make (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but, assuming the root cause of this is because your kitchen isn't completely square/rectangular, if the tiles lined up to the kitchen cabinets would this not just mean they don't line up with the opposite wall? 

Unless your kitchen units are perfectly square with the opposing walls the tiles will surely have to be slightly off somewhere? No?

We actually bought the same tiles as were laid when we bought the house. We replaced the tiles as many of them were moving and the grout was missing. When we lifted it all up, we also discovered water damage (details in my other linked threads). The previously laid tiles were perfectly lined up with the kitchen units the hallway, and the bay window. See pictures below of the old tiles down:

benson1980

It just looks like he’s rushed it a bit with the laser line and not dry laid/created a temporary straight edge to tile off, making sure it will run parallel. Therefore he’s taken the risk, and there’s no way he didn’t notice that once he’d started laying a few tiles, but again risked it by proceeding and hoped that you wouldn’t notice.

For me, again it’s the basic starting point of a decent tiling job and one could argue he owes you for materials he’s laid incorrectly. On this basis, I wouldn’t be paying. If you end up staying in this house, at some point (perhaps not immediately) you would be wanting to relay it correctly. If you sell it, it’s the sort of thing that gets noticed on a second viewing, and then some buyers wonder what else hasn’t been done correctly if you sell it as a refurb. 

NSG666

Now you've explained the measurements and shown us the original tiling it does look like he's made a right pig's ear of it.

The bay window wall and the units opposite appear to run parallel to each other, the hall door wall is possibly a bit out of square and if you said the gap increases from left to right the far wall is very out of square so looking from the garden door it would be worse than it is now but in a less obvious sight line.

Being an ex-tradesperson I hate to say it but I certainly wouldn't be paying him any more it's just up to you to decide whether you want to get him to re-do it at his expense. Be clear in your explanation of the problem because the tiles are laid straight and square to each other but they do not line up with / run parallel to the units on the longest walls.

He might try to negotiate but I'd stand my ground and let him go down the small claims route if that's what he chooses but at the moment he's only losing his labour costs.

Jeepers_Creepers

Jack_Bauer said:

if we take the furthest unit, the grout line is 25cm away from the unit. If we take the closest unit, the grout line is 31cm away from the unit.

At the back wall, the grout line from the left most unit is 39cm away from from the unit. On the right most unit (by the garden door), the grout line is 43.5cm away.

The effect is even more pronounced when you look at my Bay Window which is the right hand side of my kitchen. Take a look at where the grout line meets the Bay Window. Again, if he has just laid the tiles flush/straight against the back wall, the Bay Window would have lined up.

Lastly the kitchen as a whole. You can clearly see it all slanted with reference to the units, and the walls. He simply screwed up and didn't lay it straight.

Hope that helps.

On a separate note, my tilers electrician doesn't seem to have installed the thermostat into the wall properly. It moves and he has made it stuck into the base plate without making it sit flush. I'm going to try and pry it open and fix it in properly tonight but just goes to show, it all seems rushed.

Just to mention it again, so far we have given the tiler £661.63 and we spent £426.74 separately on the tiles and sealant. The tiler is asking us for £1485 outstanding balance and he wants it by Friday. I'm thinking I offer him half and call it a day. Either that or he rips it all up and does it properly if he wants the full balance. Not sure what to do

Hi Jack.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Taking the dimensions first - ie. the distances of the grout lines from the units - the interesting thing about this is that it indicates that the LF corner is significantly more than 90o. The sizes you gave suggest that the groutline-to-unit face spacing increases in both directions as they move away from that corner - can you confirm? Ie, as the grout line heads towards the door we are looking in to, it becomes wider as it nears the doorway (25cm to 31cm - so 6cm more), but the grout line as it runs along the window row of units also increases from LH to RH - 39cm to 43.5cm.

Is this correct? If so, then surely if he'd laid the tiles parallel to the LH row of units (the obvious, most visible, line as you come in), then the gap would have increased even more along the window row? I'm just trying to confirm if this is the case? If so, it looks as tho' the guy took an average, and split the room's error evenly so as to be less noticeable in either direction. If this is the case, then it may have seemed a 'reasonable' solution, but I think it's pretty obvious now it ain't the best one.

That's one issue. The really confusing thing is, IF that corner is more than 90o, and if the lining-up of the grout lines to unit faces therefore needs to be a compromise (other than slicing wedges off the tiles!), then how the heck did the original tiler manage to get it seemingly correct BOTH ways?

We need an answer to this! (a) Is my summation above correct? (Ie, the corner is >90o, so one or both grout lines just cannot line up. And to line up one would mean it's worse for the other.) And, (b) how on earth did the first tiler get over this issue?!

If the answer to Q (a) is 'Yes' - the two walls, and hence the kitchen base units, splay as they go out from that corner, so there's no way to line up both sets of grout lines, so the tiler did what he thought was best - split the difference, then my gut says to accept what he's done, in good faith, as being the best solution, and accept that - in practice, especially with a table in there - you'll stop noticing it.

If the answer to Q (b) is the original tiler worked out that by keeping the tiles parallel to the LH wall also meant the grout line would fit the bay recess wall just as neatly, so only the end wall would be 'out', but no-one notices this, then your new tiler has boobed. Ie, that LH corner does not splay both ways, but the LH wall is actually parallel with the RH wall, and only the end wall is 'off'.

Tough call either way. The tiler should ideally have explained and discussed both options to you. Will tradesfolk ever learn that 'comms' is everything?

stuart45

Jeepers_Creepers said: Will tradesfolk ever learn that 'comms' is everything?

I've learnt this in later years. When I was younger I would just crack on with the job without too much planning or discussions with the clients, and then work things out later. Nowadays I try and get the issues all sorted before picking up the trowel.

greenface2

Being honest with you . That would annoy the life out of me . forever .