Tiling Job - Tiles not straight

Rosa_Damascena

greenface2 said:

Being honest with you . That would annoy the life out of me . forever . 

I couldn't devote any brainspace to it, there are much more important things in life to be getting on with.

My mum's kitchen floor wasn't tiled to her satisfaction 20 years ago and she moans about them to this day. You just have to let the small things go or you';; be perpetually irritated.

Savesmartsunday

I’m not a professional but I don’t see what the issue is/it wouldn’t bother me if I bought the house. 

Jack_Bauer

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Jack_Bauer said:

if we take the furthest unit, the grout line is 25cm away from the unit. If we take the closest unit, the grout line is 31cm away from the unit.

At the back wall, the grout line from the left most unit is 39cm away from from the unit. On the right most unit (by the garden door), the grout line is 43.5cm away.

The effect is even more pronounced when you look at my Bay Window which is the right hand side of my kitchen. Take a look at where the grout line meets the Bay Window. Again, if he has just laid the tiles flush/straight against the back wall, the Bay Window would have lined up.

Lastly the kitchen as a whole. You can clearly see it all slanted with reference to the units, and the walls. He simply screwed up and didn't lay it straight.

Hope that helps.

On a separate note, my tilers electrician doesn't seem to have installed the thermostat into the wall properly. It moves and he has made it stuck into the base plate without making it sit flush. I'm going to try and pry it open and fix it in properly tonight but just goes to show, it all seems rushed.

Just to mention it again, so far we have given the tiler £661.63 and we spent £426.74 separately on the tiles and sealant. The tiler is asking us for £1485 outstanding balance and he wants it by Friday. I'm thinking I offer him half and call it a day. Either that or he rips it all up and does it properly if he wants the full balance. Not sure what to do

Hi Jack.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Taking the dimensions first - ie. the distances of the grout lines from the units - the interesting thing about this is that it indicates that the LF corner is significantly more than 90o. The sizes you gave suggest that the groutline-to-unit face spacing increases in both directions as they move away from that corner - can you confirm? Ie, as the grout line heads towards the door we are looking in to, it becomes wider as it nears the doorway (25cm to 31cm - so 6cm more), but the grout line as it runs along the window row of units also increases from LH to RH - 39cm to 43.5cm.

Is this correct? If so, then surely if he'd laid the tiles parallel to the LH row of units (the obvious, most visible, line as you come in), then the gap would have increased even more along the window row? I'm just trying to confirm if this is the case? If so, it looks as tho' the guy took an average, and split the room's error evenly so as to be less noticeable in either direction. If this is the case, then it may have seemed a 'reasonable' solution, but I think it's pretty obvious now it ain't the best one.

That's one issue. The really confusing thing is, IF that corner is more than 90o, and if the lining-up of the grout lines to unit faces therefore needs to be a compromise (other than slicing wedges off the tiles!), then how the heck did the original tiler manage to get it seemingly correct BOTH ways?

We need an answer to this! (a) Is my summation above correct? (Ie, the corner is >90o, so one or both grout lines just cannot line up. And to line up one would mean it's worse for the other.) And, (b) how on earth did the first tiler get over this issue?!

If the answer to Q (a) is 'Yes' - the two walls, and hence the kitchen base units, splay as they go out from that corner, so there's no way to line up both sets of grout lines, so the tiler did what he thought was best - split the difference, then my gut says to accept what he's done, in good faith, as being the best solution, and accept that - in practice, especially with a table in there - you'll stop noticing it.

If the answer to Q (b) is the original tiler worked out that by keeping the tiles parallel to the LH wall also meant the grout line would fit the bay recess wall just as neatly, so only the end wall would be 'out', but no-one notices this, then your new tiler has boobed. Ie, that LH corner does not splay both ways, but the LH wall is actually parallel with the RH wall, and only the end wall is 'off'.

Tough call either way. The tiler should ideally have explained and discussed both options to you. Will tradesfolk ever learn that 'comms' is everything?

Apologies, I had made a mistake. Sorry for the crude picture and the really bad handwriting but please see below of what distances from the grout lines are. I hope this helps:

Jeepers_Creepers

Jack_Bauer said:

Apologies, I had made a mistake. Sorry for the crude picture and the really bad handwriting but please see below of what distances from the grout lines are. I hope this helps:

Oh. Ma. Gawd.

That's a completely different kettle of worms. That is, quite simply, a mistake. A stupid, fundamental, and very basic error.

If it's as you show above, you would be quite within your rights to refuse to accept it. And, like Greengace, I think that would drive me nuts.

Why? Not because the grout lines are 'out' - which would have been the case with your original info, so some compromise on spacings would have had to be made along the LH side and end - but because the tiles shouldn't be 'out'. It should not have happened.

It's the difference between "Look, your corners aren't 90o, so there will either be an increasing gap along one side, or I can split the difference between two - it's the best I can do. Is that ok?", and "Your room is spot on, nice and square. But I'm still going to lay the tiles at a slight angle 'cos I'm a twit. And, when you complain, I'm going to insist it's not my fault 'cos I used a laser. Yeah?"

"Yes" and "No" respectively.

You will be living with the mistake, the basic error carried out by this unapologetic tiler, his incompetence, his lack of contrition, his disingenuous attempt to try and get out of jail free, his... yougettheidea.

Basically, Jack, resolve this the way that will make it right for you. Either completely redone - yes, a huge job, but that's tough - or such a whopping discount that you can live with it.

Have we asked - do you have LegProt on your house insurance? If going the former route, you will likely require an independent surveyor to come out and confirm this was entirely the tiler's error. And what a beauty...

travis-powers

I don’t do tiles but l do a lot of wooden floors so same principle, measure measure measure!
 Find the centre of the room and work back to find out where room is out of square then talk to client but common sense would say run floor parallel to units especially with a doorway.
 I personally could not live with that!

Doozergirl

That would really mess with my head, but why don't people check in on at least part of a job so that mistakes can be called out when they're fresh and the job isn't finished!  That's my job.  Design, measure, purchase, agree the design and method on site and then check progress.  And take responsibility for the lot!  If the correct communication hasn't happened and it starts badly, the tiles can at least be removed whilst the adhesive is still wet.  At the worst, you haven't wasted an entire room's worth of product. 

If you don't want to pay someone to supervise and project manage it's fine, but you have to do all of that yourself and the buck does stop at you.   When you buy materials and someone else brings labour, you take a risk.  They're not responsible for the materials, only the labour.   It can save money, but when you get caught out it really costs 😞.  

NSG666

Doozergirl said:

That would really mess with my head, but why don't people check in on at least part of a job so that mistakes can be called out when they're fresh and the job isn't finished!  That's my job.  Design, measure, purchase, agree the design and method on site and then check progress.  And take responsibility for the lot!  If the correct communication hasn't happened and it starts badly, the tiles can at least be removed whilst the adhesive is still wet.  At the worst, you haven't wasted an entire room's worth of product. 

If you don't want to pay someone to supervise and project manage it's fine, but you have to do all of that yourself and the buck does stop at you.   When you buy materials and someone else brings labour, you take a risk.  They're not responsible for the materials, only the labour.   It can save money, but when you get caught out it really costs 😞.  

Blimey if you employ a tiler to tile a square cornered room with square tiles and need to check he's not fitted them on the skew either you employ some dumb tilers or I've been very lucky to work only with those with brains. I must be lucky none of them ever put the tiles pattern side down.

Section62

NSG666 said:

Blimey if you employ a tiler to tile a square cornered room with square tiles and need to check he's not fitted them on the skew either you employ some dumb tilers or I've been very lucky to work only with those with brains. I must be lucky none of them ever put the tiles pattern side down.

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, event the most skilled and highly rated tradespeople.

A key function of supervision is to have (at least) a second person to (ideally) catch the mistakes of the first - at a time where rectification is possible with minimum cost/waste/delay.

Save money/effort on supervision, pay for it with avoidable errors and mistakes.

Doozergirl

Section62 said:

NSG666 said:

Blimey if you employ a tiler to tile a square cornered room with square tiles and need to check he's not fitted them on the skew either you employ some dumb tilers or I've been very lucky to work only with those with brains. I must be lucky none of them ever put the tiles pattern side down.

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, event the most skilled and highly rated tradespeople.

A key function of supervision is to have (at least) a second person to (ideally) catch the mistakes of the first - at a time where rectification is possible with minimum cost/waste/delay.

Save money/effort on supervision, pay for it with avoidable errors and mistakes.

Exactly this.  These jobs are carried out by humans.  If you put at least two sets of eyes on it, it's unlikely to go wrong in the first place.  

Doozergirl

NSG666 said:

Doozergirl said:

That would really mess with my head, but why don't people check in on at least part of a job so that mistakes can be called out when they're fresh and the job isn't finished!  That's my job.  Design, measure, purchase, agree the design and method on site and then check progress.  And take responsibility for the lot!  If the correct communication hasn't happened and it starts badly, the tiles can at least be removed whilst the adhesive is still wet.  At the worst, you haven't wasted an entire room's worth of product. 

If you don't want to pay someone to supervise and project manage it's fine, but you have to do all of that yourself and the buck does stop at you.   When you buy materials and someone else brings labour, you take a risk.  They're not responsible for the materials, only the labour.   It can save money, but when you get caught out it really costs 😞.  

Blimey if you employ a tiler to tile a square cornered room with square tiles and need to check he's not fitted them on the skew either you employ some dumb tilers or I've been very lucky to work only with those with brains. I must be lucky none of them ever put the tiles pattern side down.

Rude, much?  Our tiler is excellent.  We discuss everything beforehand in quite some detail, and I'll
even make sure that any new elements are built to suit good cuts in the chosen tiles, but it took a few tilers to find the one that we needed to keep and not let go of.  That's a significant benefit of repeated experience.    

If you're employing someone you don't know, the likelihood of you getting exactly what you want, even with a conversation, is going to be far lower than me leaving my guy to his own devices, that's a fact! 

Look where the OP is now.  I'm glad you're happy with your tiling, but they're not and it didn't need to get to this point.