Staying local

Sea_Shell

JamoLew said:

Let be honest - there are and have been 3 types of people during this:

1) One that follow every little rule,guidance and law to the letter
2) Those that generally follow the spirit of the rules,guidance and law
3) Those that try and find every little loophole/technicality/interpretation to justify doing what they want to do regardless

Not to mention that some of the people in (1) feel that anyone who falls into (2) should be publicly flogged.  As for (3), no punishment is harsh enough!!

JamoLew

silvercar said:

JamoLew said:

Let be honest - there are and have been 3 types of people during this:

1) One that follow every little rule,guidance and law to the letter
2) Those that generally follow the spirit of the rules,guidance and law
3) Those that try and find every little loophole/technicality/interpretation to justify doing what they want to do regardless

I would add that there are people who follow the rules and guidance but have a desperate need for something that they need to find a way to do. It may not be so crucial that the government recognises it as a reason in official guidance/ law for fear of everyone taking advantage, but it exists. That is why people are exploring the limit of the rules at this point in time, when we have already been in lockdown for months. eg elderly parents that haven't seen anyone for months, that could really benefit from an outdoor visit from one of their children but no one lives local. So the very much adult offspring, who has been obeying every rule, wants to explore the legality of a visit.  

I would say that comes under 2 -- It would depend on whether their "desperate need" can honestly be interpreted as essential

As for your example of visiting elderly relatives - make a "risk assessment" - is it safe, is it sensible,is it putting anyone at risk and just dont take the Michael and do it every day
Keep within the law and "spirit" of the guidance (where it exists)

justworriedabit

JamoLew said:

justworriedabit said:

JamoLew said:

justworriedabit said:

JamoLew said:

The definition of “Local” has been published .

” Your village,town or part of a city where you live”

Currently 17miles is unlikely to be classed as local

Would you care to direct me and others to the information you claim to have been "published" that defines "local"?
Birmingham, Manchester, London etc are big cites and i may be wrong buy it is more than 17 miles one to the other end.
We too want to travel a few miles to the beach, so it would help.


TIA

See the reply/quote by elsien or just use Google like I did

I can't see or find the legal definition of it. As you already know, kindly provide the link that clearly states what "local" is. It was you that tried to define the meaning but as I said, I can't see it anywhere.
TIA

No thanks

I havent tried at all to define it thanks - please read my post properly

If you need clarification or an exact definition - then YOU are part of the problem

You did difine the definition of local and I quote.
"JamoLew said:

The definition of “Local” has been published .

” Your village,town or part of a city where you live”

Currently 17miles is unlikely to be classed as local"

Then you tried to tell me to "Google it. "I told you I could not find it.
So where is the "published" evidence, please?
Should you not substantiate you claim, then I will will know that there is no such evidence.
Many thanks in advance.

Davesnave

JamoLew said:

Let be honest - there are and have been 3 types of people during this:

1) One that follow every little rule,guidance and law to the letter
2) Those that generally follow the spirit of the rules,guidance and law
3) Those that try and find every little loophole/technicality/interpretation to justify doing what they want to do regardless

Almost right, but I think people who want to find technicalities and loopholes are not the same as those who find no reason to justify anything.

'Technicalities' may also inform following the spirit of the rules. For example, the current 7.2 cases per 100 000 in my area might be a significant factor in how I behave currently. It's probably the reason why 7 of us found ourselves chatting in someone's garden the other day for a few minutes. It wasn't anyone's intention to break rules and I only thought about it later on.

The people I'm most worried about locally are those in 1) I haven't seen some nearby ones for months. Apparently, they creep out at night to put out their bins etc. There's a virtually brand new car on their drive, which I bet hasn't moved since lockdown began. Their mental health wasn't great before 2020, so God knows where it is now!

MattMattMattUK

Mickey666 said:

Isn't it 'stay local where possible'?
Thus leaving home to go shopping for food is allowed, but driving past your local supermarket to buy food in a supermaret 100 miles away is clearly not allowed.

But what if you want to go shopping for something not available locally.  I'm currently looking for a compact tractor and the nearest suitable looking one is about 60 miles away, so it's 'as local as possible'.  Will I be OK if stopped by plod in my next door county?

That would probably depend if your need to shop for a compact tractor right now is reasonable, or if you are just claiming that you need to drive sixty miles to look at compact tractors as an excuse. 

justworriedabit

Davesnave said:

JamoLew said:

Let be honest - there are and have been 3 types of people during this:

1) One that follow every little rule,guidance and law to the letter
2) Those that generally follow the spirit of the rules,guidance and law
3) Those that try and find every little loophole/technicality/interpretation to justify doing what they want to do regardless

Almost right, but I think people who want to find technicalities and loopholes are not the same as those who find no reason to justify anything.

'Technicalities' may also inform following the spirit of the rules. For example, the current 7.2 cases per 100 000 in my area might be a significant factor in how I behave currently. It's probably the reason why 7 of us found ourselves chatting in someone's garden the other day for a few minutes. It wasn't anyone's intention to break rules and I only thought about it later on.

The people I'm most worried about locally are those in 1) I haven't seen some nearby ones for months. Apparently, they creep out at night to put out their bins etc. There's a virtually brand new car on their drive, which I bet hasn't moved since lockdown began. Their mental health wasn't great before 2020, so God knows where it is now!

Good post but the highlighted bit. Not everyone is like that I am not, nor is my family but we just want clear rules to let us know what we can do ie stay withing city X, stay within postcode, stay within council boundary, etc.
Thanks

Davesnave

justworriedabit said:

Davesnave said:

JamoLew said:

Let be honest - there are and have been 3 types of people during this:

1) One that follow every little rule,guidance and law to the letter
2) Those that generally follow the spirit of the rules,guidance and law
3) Those that try and find every little loophole/technicality/interpretation to justify doing what they want to do regardless

Almost right, but I think people who want to find technicalities and loopholes are not the same as those who find no reason to justify anything.

'Technicalities' may also inform following the spirit of the rules. For example, the current 7.2 cases per 100 000 in my area might be a significant factor in how I behave currently. It's probably the reason why 7 of us found ourselves chatting in someone's garden the other day for a few minutes. It wasn't anyone's intention to break rules and I only thought about it later on.

The people I'm most worried about locally are those in 1) I haven't seen some nearby ones for months. Apparently, they creep out at night to put out their bins etc. There's a virtually brand new car on their drive, which I bet hasn't moved since lockdown began. Their mental health wasn't great before 2020, so God knows where it is now!

Good post but the highlighted bit. Not everyone is like that I am not, nor is my family but we just want clear rules to let us know what we can do ie stay withing city X, stay within postcode, stay within council boundary, etc.
Thanks

I understand that, but it's the huge variety in the places where people live which makes very tightly defined rules hard to apply.

GrumpyDil

I've always thought common sense is useful. For instance my nearest shopping area is in a different county and council area. That area is approx 6 miles closer than the nearest shops in my council area and has a lower rate of infection than the other area.
Is anyone really going to argue that I should travel further to stay local?

JamoLew

justworriedabit said:

JamoLew said:

justworriedabit said:

JamoLew said:

justworriedabit said:

JamoLew said:

The definition of “Local” has been published .

” Your village,town or part of a city where you live”

Currently 17miles is unlikely to be classed as local

Would you care to direct me and others to the information you claim to have been "published" that defines "local"?
Birmingham, Manchester, London etc are big cites and i may be wrong buy it is more than 17 miles one to the other end.
We too want to travel a few miles to the beach, so it would help.


TIA

See the reply/quote by elsien or just use Google like I did

I can't see or find the legal definition of it. As you already know, kindly provide the link that clearly states what "local" is. It was you that tried to define the meaning but as I said, I can't see it anywhere.
TIA

No thanks

I havent tried at all to define it thanks - please read my post properly

If you need clarification or an exact definition - then YOU are part of the problem

You did difine the definition of local and I quote.
"JamoLew said:

The definition of “Local” has been published .

” Your village,town or part of a city where you live”

Currently 17miles is unlikely to be classed as local"

Then you tried to tell me to "Google it. "I told you I could not find it.
So where is the "published" evidence, please?
Should you not substantiate you claim, then I will will know that there is no such evidence.
Many thanks in advance.

I defined nothing

I stated that definitions had been published

I DID NOT say whether they were accurate and/or legal

I DID NOT state whether i agree/disagree with it

Google "lockdown, what is local"

Definition of Local:

local

1. 1.

   relating or restricted to a particular area or one's neighbourhood.

   
   
   How people wish to interpret that is open to "debate"
   
   if you wish to not believe anything anyone says because they can't/don't supply evidence that satisfies you, that's your prerogative - knock yourself out on these:

epm-84

silvercar said:

"stay local where possible" suggests it is guidance not law.

Currently you are only allowed to leave the home for a few permitted reasons by law, so you need to be able to justify why you are where you are at any time.  Obviously if you are at your nearest supermarket buying food or at your nearest park exercising then there's no debate, you are out for a valid reason.  However, if you're driving 10 miles to ASDA when Tesco is 1 mile away you need a good reason for doing so for it to be legal e.g. ASDA being on your way to work, or on the way to an elderly relative in your support bubble and you're buying food for them as well.