Arguing over a house move - who's being unreasonable

ripplyuk

Does your partner understand the work involved to keep horses on your own land? I’ve had horses all my life and it’s not easy. They aren’t like sheep. It’s never ending weedspraying, fertilising, harrowing, reseeding, moving electric fences, etc. You’ll need a quad at the very least and probably need to pay a contractor for some jobs. I understand she is from a rural background but I imagine her dad took care of the pasture management. It’s certainly cheaper than livery fees but at the expense of time. She’ll be able to spend more quality time with her horses if she keeps them at livery. 

I’d also suggest going to Relate. Whether you give in to this move or not, one of you is going to end up resenting the other. Relate can help with that. 

MrBrindle

ripplyuk said:

Does your partner understand the work involved to keep horses on your own land? I’ve had horses all my life and it’s not easy. They aren’t like sheep. It’s never ending weedspraying, fertilising, harrowing, reseeding, moving electric fences, etc. You’ll need a quad at the very least and probably need to pay a contractor for some jobs. I understand she is from a rural background but I imagine her dad took care of the pasture management. It’s certainly cheaper than livery fees but at the expense of time. She’ll be able to spend more quality time with her horses if she keeps them at livery. 

I’d also suggest going to Relate. Whether you give in to this move or not, one of you is going to end up resenting the other. Relate can help with that. 

Thanks for the perspective from another horse owner. I think she has some understanding of the work involved, but is probably a bit deluded about how much. When she was younger, she had a horse on loan. And you're right regarding the father, he stopped working when she was very young so spent the day tending to the field(s), gardens etc.  She mentioned the other day how overwhelming our average sized 4 bed house is to keep on top of, so I don't understand why she doesn't realise the upkeep that goes with land. Especially when she'll be working on her dog grooming business. 

Contrary to your last line, she expects to be able to spend MORE time with the horses if she had them on her own land. I'm sure aspects would be easier......no twice daily commute to livery, less costs, easier to tend to at the drop of a hat etc. I do feel for her sometimes, because it is frustrating having to drive up there everyday. She only had the one horse when I met her, however in the middle of her PND after the birth of our second daughter, she wanted another small one 'for the children'. I resisted at first because I knew the work and money involved, however she had her way unfortunately. I really regret not doing more to put her off the idea, and it's one of the reasons we've been struggling financially over the years. 

What is your opinion on keeping a horse which is getting old and keeps getting health problems?

  

MrBrindle

Sea_Shell said:

gettingtheresometime said:

Sea_Shell said:

Then you need to lay all the figures out in black and white to your partner and prove to her it cannot be done.

She might want the moon on a stick, but the harsh reality sounds like you can't afford it, even if it was your dream too!!!

So what happens if the OP does that and the MIL offers to lend them some more money so that the move could be made? 

I suppose that could happen, but surely MiL wouldn't be so naïve as to lend even more money to a couple who aren't on the same page in life.

However she may lend her daughter enough "escape" money!

I don't think she will lend more money. She said multiple times that this was the maximum we could borrow. She also has a a son, and has said that he is to inherit a larger share in the future because she's already helped us out financially.

ripplyuk

MrBrindle said:

ripplyuk said:

Does your partner understand the work involved to keep horses on your own land? I’ve had horses all my life and it’s not easy. They aren’t like sheep. It’s never ending weedspraying, fertilising, harrowing, reseeding, moving electric fences, etc. You’ll need a quad at the very least and probably need to pay a contractor for some jobs. I understand she is from a rural background but I imagine her dad took care of the pasture management. It’s certainly cheaper than livery fees but at the expense of time. She’ll be able to spend more quality time with her horses if she keeps them at livery. 

I’d also suggest going to Relate. Whether you give in to this move or not, one of you is going to end up resenting the other. Relate can help with that. 

What is your opinion on keeping a horse which is getting old and keeps getting health problems?

  

That depends on what the health problems are and on it’s quality of life. It needs to be able to move about relatively pain free, eat, keep weight on etc. It also depends on your finances. 

Another point to keep in mind about having horses on your own land is that once the elderly horse needs euthanised or dies, your partner will want to get another companion for the pony. They like company. At a livery yard with lots of other horses, this won’t be a problem. 

getmore4less

MrBrindle said:

Sea_Shell said:

Net equity is what you'd have left, cash, after repayments of all loans, mortgage, if you sold and didn't buy somewhere else.

Oh right ok, after fees and everything, I'd imagine we'd have something like 30% equity.

I should have added above. The reason we have a personal loan is because we couldn't remortgage enough for the last house purchase. So if the loan was taken away, it's highly unlikely we'd be able to remortgage enough.

Is it really secured against the property.
Lenders are not keen on that , do they know you used borrowed money for the deposit?

princeofpounds

It's not the most important point, but it's worth bearing in mind that it's probably unlikely she would be able to extend this cottage in the way she thinks she can. Many councils have rules for rural properties restricting extensions to a certain % of floor area compared to what the house was in 1948, usually 20% or 30%. They are often even stricter for properties with small footprints, in an effort to preserve small 'affordable' housing stock. It's totally stupid in my mind, trying to preserve affordability by restricting supply - clearly planners don't learn basic economics (It may keep that specific property cheaper than it would be, but it pushes up the price of all properties) . But it is what it is. Anyway, this will be written in the local planning policies and you can always point it out. Plus yes, you won't get the mortgage.

Of course this isn't really about rational logic. I do feel for you. It's very hard not to be the bad guy when you're saying no to someone's ideas, so I do agree that rather than just saying 'no because...' it makes sense to ask her to demonstrate her ideas are viable, put the onus on her. And be really positive about what is good for the two of you in your current lifestyle. Don't disparage her idea of the country life, it's very cherished and it's not ridiculous, it's just ridiculous right now. 

warwick2001

I may have missed this, and if you have already addressed it, I apologize, but how did you deal with your partners PND? Did she seek counselling? Or did she just announce "I feel better now"? I ask this as I believe this is the major factor in her thinking. I genuinely believe she is still suffering mental health issues i.e. depression (I have surmised this from what you have said on here, and I'm not a newbie when dealing with people with mental health issues). Like I previously said, I had an ex that almost exactly replicated your partners actions/thoughts. The next new thing will make me happy..... the next new thing will make me happy.....

When you sit down and discuss the moving house/horses issues, and confront her with the logic/facts that you literally cannot afford this move, she will nod and possibly agree, but her mind is still telling her the only way for her to be happy is to move to the cottage/look after the horses herself. She can't help this, its the depression that dictates her thinking. 

I strongly suggest you encourage your partner to contact First Steps (its within the NHS) and start counselling sessions. Chances are they will arrange a phone call to discuss the issues, and go from there. My ex didn't take this advice, and eventually I couldn't cope with the constant demands for the next new thing, and I left the relationship. I wish you better luck

MrBrindle

warwick2001 said:

I may have missed this, and if you have already addressed it, I apologize, but how did you deal with your partners PND? Did she seek counselling? Or did she just announce "I feel better now"? I ask this as I believe this is the major factor in her thinking. I genuinely believe she is still suffering mental health issues i.e. depression (I have surmised this from what you have said on here, and I'm not a newbie when dealing with people with mental health issues). Like I previously said, I had an ex that almost exactly replicated your partners actions/thoughts. The next new thing will make me happy..... the next new thing will make me happy.....

When you sit down and discuss the moving house/horses issues, and confront her with the logic/facts that you literally cannot afford this move, she will nod and possibly agree, but her mind is still telling her the only way for her to be happy is to move to the cottage/look after the horses herself. She can't help this, its the depression that dictates her thinking. 

I strongly suggest you encourage your partner to contact First Steps (its within the NHS) and start counselling sessions. Chances are they will arrange a phone call to discuss the issues, and go from there. My ex didn't take this advice, and eventually I couldn't cope with the constant demands for the next new thing, and I left the relationship. I wish you better luck

Hiya, so looking back at the PND or depression, I would actually say she suffered throughout the first pregnancy (2014) until the second pregnancy (2016-2017). However she became a lot worse after the second pregnancy. This is when she hated our second house and felt like it was a prison. She did a course of CBT under the NHS, which I think helped. However in my opinion, and she has always denied this, the PND lifted when I agreed to sell the house and move on. Perhaps it was the CBT and a natural lift in the PND, but it most definitely coincided with the house selling decision.  

To be honest, I've never thought of her still being depressed - I wouldn't say she is 'depressed' in the classic sense. I told her the day before this cottage won't make you happy, but she tells me she is happy in our current home - she doesn't hate it or anything like the previous house. But her dream is to have land and this opportunity is 'too good' to miss out on. I don't know, maybe she is right, properties with land are very expensive around here, so in her mind, the compromise of us downsizing to a 2 bed cottage (if at all affordable) is fine. On a personal note, I have already been pushed to leave a house which I loved and enjoyed living in, and I'm feeling quite aggrieved about being made to go through the same process again. 

The problem with me suggesting help, is that I have also experienced a breakdown, anxiety and depression over the last few years, and although I have done a CBT course and Hypnotherapy, I still find myself struggling at times. So I'm the one with 'mental health' issues, and she uses that against me to dismiss my worries and thoughts. 

Mojisola

MrBrindle said:

On a personal note, I have already been pushed to leave a house which I loved and enjoyed living in, and I'm feeling quite aggrieved about being made to go through the same process again.
The problem with me suggesting help, is that I have also experienced a breakdown, anxiety and depression over the last few years, and although I have done a CBT course and Hypnotherapy, I still find myself struggling at times. So I'm the one with 'mental health' issues, and she uses that against me to dismiss my worries and thoughts. 

It sounds as if you are constantly accommodating her wishes at the expense of your own well-being and that she doesn't care about the effect this has all had on you.

If she won't go for more therapy, perhaps you should to build up your self-esteem so that you can stand up to her.

The only other option seems to be to consider splitting up - you can't live your life like this.

MrBrindle

Just thought I'd update because there's nothing worse than a thread that gets left with unanswered questions!

Spoke to her MIL yesterday who's had good news health wise this week, so I thought it may be safe to bring this subject up. Brought it up casually in conversation and she sounded quite frustrated and disheartened about it. The back up for me is that if we were to sell the house, she will enforce the clause and demand her loan money back because she feels like we've already wasted enough money on moves over the years. Also worried about the children becoming unsettled and of course the idea of us all living in much smaller quarters.

Anyway, my partner was due to go see the cottage this week, but we haven't spoken about it any further so I don't know what's going on.