Help with cat in leasehold flat - Director with passive/aggressive behaviour

davidmcn

Luisaandhercat said:

Alan2020 said:

I think Luisa has a number of points to note:
1. I suspect maybe people don’t like Johnny Foreigner breaking their laws (in the flat kingdom) and you mistook the politeness of the friendly person for sympathy.
2. You are assuming, no one else has an allergy etc and complained.
3. You are misreading the culture, most people will see your partner as a dramatic troublemaker. To give you a perspective, our child cannot take to school any peanut containing food to school due to other children’s allergies. Now we love peanuts and this is annoying due to having to change everything we cook. Imagine how the teachers will perceive a parent complaining how depressed they are without jumbo peanuts - people will say !!!!!!. Now imagine there was a person with an allergy next door, the directors can’t tell you due to GDPR, but will view you as selfish people making up a disease.
4. Have you had a look at who else lives in these apartments? You might find it’s better to sell up and move. We had this issue whilst living in Sweden, we lived in a very upmarket apartment complex and had constant problems, because we were foreign. Moved to a more mixed neighbourhood and things were better but Sweden isn’t a good place to live as a foreigner lol

I know that regardless of England being one of the only countries with a Leasehold system, other systems obviously have rules in place. The difference is that as there is no leasehold, if you do something wrong you can e.g. pay a fine? I would love to be fined right now. a few people have said here that they can even forfeit the lease?? Take you to court?

I'm pretty sure that the norm in other countries isn't that you pay a fine, and then be allowed to carry on breaking the rule. Ultimately being ordered by a court to comply with title conditions is not something peculiar to England.

Obviously that's just in principle, in practice (as said above) I very much doubt anybody will pursue court action about something as trivial as an indoors cat, or that a court would order forfeiture of a lease.

frogglet

If the other director has dog visits.....
 You said you have a freehold garage, well  that can be pussycats "permanent" address, and visits regularly from there
The cats been rehomed with a friend and comes to visit , just like those dogs.
 I really couldn't give up my cats or dog, my family say they are always put first at mealtimes etc lol.

Luisaandhercat

Seashell517 said:

OP - I understand that being told you can't have the cat and then keeping it goes against most people's wanting 'to do the right thing'. But in this case, I would honestly just wait and see if anything further happens. I can't see the directors wanting to spend money on getting your cat removed when it's indoor and therefore not directly effecting anybody else living in the block. (You would need to declare that you've breached the lease when selling, but I can't see that many people would be put off buying it because you kept a cat when the director's said no...)

Thank you for your comments. I will wait and see what their reply is now.

I wish it was not so black and white and more open to alternatives, as I said before: pay a penalty/fine for our mistake; whatever, but just let my cat live a nice peaceful life in a home where she's cared for deeply.

I don't understand the point of having a system that clearly doesn't work: many people have pets but haven't been reported, so they are in breach of their lease but it's OK; others like us, reported; others denied permission; others (like the actual Director who reported) having a visiting pet that she shares with someone else and brings into the building almost tip-toeing.

I admire a good system. This I find obsolete and causing misery. Just my opinion.

Luisaandhercat

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Seashell517 said:

OP - I understand that being told you can't have the cat and then keeping it goes against most people's wanting 'to do the right thing'. But in this case, I would honestly just wait and see if anything further happens. I can't see the directors wanting to spend money on getting your cat removed when it's indoor and therefore not directly effecting anybody else living in the block. (You would need to declare that you've breached the lease when selling, but I can't see that many people would be put off buying it because you kept a cat when the director's said no...)

Your confidence is admirable, however the OP needs to make damn sure there isn't a forfeiture clause/power of re-entry present in her lease before digging her heels in.  

Thanks for your comment. This is what it says:

"Failure to pay any amounts as may be due under the Lease, for example the Ground Rent, Service

Charge or buildings insurance (if demanded separately) or in fact, being in breach of any other
obligation on your part, may have severe and costly consequences and as a result the Landlord
may also take action to forfeit (terminate) your Lease (albeit subject to various statutory regulations
and reliefs)."

cymruchris

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Ditzy_Mitzy

I think we're going round in circles here.  The facts of the matter are thus:
OP is a leaseholder and, as such, is contractually bound to comply with the conditions of her lease.
OP is in breach of the lease and has been given the opportunity to rectify the matter by the freeholder.
OP does not wish to take the action set out by the freeholder.  OP remains in breach of the lease, quite deliberately so. 
OP holds precisely no cards at this point.  
There are three courses of action:
1) Get rid of the cat.
2) Attempt to get the freeholder, or the freeholder's appointed representatives in the shape of the board of directors to change their minds.
3) Do nothing and hope that the freeholder takes no further action.  
Action 2 was, and probably still is, the best option.  The OP's behaviour seems to have got the directors' backs up, so expecting a change of heart without a change in the OP's attitude might be asking too much.  I suspect the director at the root of this is cut from different cloth to the OP, thus hasn't responded well to the situation.  She may even have taken the suggestions that she is morally wrong, cruel even, personally.  
I can only suggest that the OP arranges to meet the director, perhaps somewhere neutral, and attempts to have a sensible discussion with her about the practicalities of the matter.  Just stop with all the 'it's different in Spain' stuff and references to medical needs.  It doesn't help; not everyone believes what you believe, nor do they have to.  Just make the case that it's an indoor cat and it doesn't bother anybody.  
Action 3 is risky.  There will be solicitors out there more than willing to help the directors.
Good luck. 

Luisaandhercat

martindow said:

Leaving the morality of keeping pets and going back to page 4, the OP quoted this

The lease says exactly this: "Animals: a) not to keep any animal on the Property without the prior written consent of the Company or the Management Company. b) To comply with such directions as the Company or the Management Company may from time to time issue regarding the keeping of any animal on the Property and to ensure that such animal shall not cause any nuisance or disturbance or foul any Common Parts or the Amenity Area of the Woodland Area".

That certainly implies that there is no blanket ban and that consent could be granted.  The OP needs to try to talk (calmly) to the other directors to see whether there are sympathetic voices there in an effort to get permission.

This was suggested earlier, but i am not sure whether the OP has tried this ...

Hi, thank you for your comments.

I'd love to talk calmly (only way I talk, BTW) to the other Directors.

This is exactly my point (and why I posted here), I believe in communications, in finding a middle ground.

I am happy to pay a fine or an additional fee, do whatever is reasonable to keep the cat (even if others don't have to).

I am waiting for the reply from the Managing Agent to decide on our next steps.

The issue I see with this sensible approach is that -so far- (not only because of our issue, but also because of situations in the block's WhatsApp group and in the wider FB group (the whole Estate), that when leaseholders challenge sth (even why there was no consultation to change to a new managing company that is double the fee than the previous one), the response they get from the Directors is: "If you don't agree, come help...we work long hours for free" or their comments get turned off.

(Hence, the title of my original post). Also, the Director who supported us in private seems to have shut off a bit.

And other people will keep to themselves. Lots of politics.

Luisaandhercat

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Luisaandhercat

Luisaandhercat said:

martindow said:

Leaving the morality of keeping pets and going back to page 4, the OP quoted this

The lease says exactly this: "Animals: a) not to keep any animal on the Property without the prior written consent of the Company or the Management Company. b) To comply with such directions as the Company or the Management Company may from time to time issue regarding the keeping of any animal on the Property and to ensure that such animal shall not cause any nuisance or disturbance or foul any Common Parts or the Amenity Area of the Woodland Area".

That certainly implies that there is no blanket ban and that consent could be granted.  The OP needs to try to talk (calmly) to the other directors to see whether there are sympathetic voices there in an effort to get permission.

This was suggested earlier, but i am not sure whether the OP has tried this ...

Hi, thank you for your comments.

I'd love to talk calmly (only way I talk, BTW) to the other Directors.

This is exactly my point (and why I posted here), I believe in communications, in finding a middle ground.

I am happy to pay a fine or an additional fee, do whatever is reasonable to keep the cat (even if others don't have to).

I am waiting for the reply from the Managing Agent to decide on our next steps.

The issue I see with this sensible approach is that -so far- (not only because of our issue, but also because of situations in the block's WhatsApp group and in the wider FB group (the whole Estate), that when leaseholders challenge sth (even why there was no consultation to change to a new managing company that is double the fee than the previous one), the response they get from the Directors is: "If you don't agree, come help...we work long hours for free" or their comments get turned off.

(Hence, the title of my original post). Also, the Director who supported us in private seems to have shut off a bit.

And other people will keep to themselves. Lots of politics.

@Froglet I've just seen that you've made the same comment as @mart@martindow

I replied here. Thank you for your comment.

another_casualty

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Hope you are allowed to keep the cat , and that things work out .
However, do not put the cat in the garage ! It is not the same as being an indoor cat 
Weather temperatures , the noise of other animals plus the risk of foxes. 

Stay the way you are. Be humble to the directors . Wait until  you receive your next letter and take things from there. You could reply with, " it's a shame I have to move as it is a nice place" etc . It will take time to move anyway , plus Covid . 

Anyway , keep cat indoors and best of luck 🤞