Help with cat in leasehold flat - Director with passive/aggressive behaviour

frogglet

Don't think anyone wants to actually put the cat in the garage. 

cymruchris

another_casualty said:

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Hope you are allowed to keep the cat , and that things work out .
However, do not put the cat in the garage ! It is not the same as being an indoor cat 
Weather temperatures , the noise of other animals plus the risk of foxes. 

Stay the way you are. Be humble to the directors . Wait until  you receive your next letter and take things from there. You could reply with, " it's a shame I have to move as it is a nice place" etc . It will take time to move anyway , plus Covid . 

Anyway , keep cat indoors and best of luck 🤞

I'm not suggesting that they ACTUALLY keep the cat in the garage - but have it kitted out as though it's the cat's main residence as that's a freehold garage. Then when the cat happens to be in the apartment - it's just visiting - like other pets do throughout the development already discussed. 

davidmcn

cymruchris said:

another_casualty said:

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Hope you are allowed to keep the cat , and that things work out .
However, do not put the cat in the garage ! It is not the same as being an indoor cat 
Weather temperatures , the noise of other animals plus the risk of foxes. 

Stay the way you are. Be humble to the directors . Wait until  you receive your next letter and take things from there. You could reply with, " it's a shame I have to move as it is a nice place" etc . It will take time to move anyway , plus Covid . 

Anyway , keep cat indoors and best of luck 🤞

I'm not suggesting that they ACTUALLY keep the cat in the garage - but have it kitted out as though it's the cat's main residence as that's a freehold garage. Then when the cat happens to be in the apartment - it's just visiting - like other pets do throughout the development already discussed. 

Just because the garage is freehold doesn't mean there won't be covenants restricting its use - it's likely that it can only be used for...well, garagey things, rather than cat accommodation.
Plus I'm not sure the ruse will be all that convincing! How do you make the garage seem like the cat's residence if nobody can see in, and the cat is never actually taken there?

elsien

Luisaandhercat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Alan2020 said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

I think your number 3 is a bit unfair.  There’s tons of medical evidence that dogs and cats are beneficial for mental health, none for peanuts! 

There isn’t any medical evidence from any credible source. Firstly having a pet is ethnically questionable, I highly doubt the animal has a free choice, it’s akin to animal slavery. Secondly, in the UK people aren’t into alternative mumbo jumbo. The only dogs I am aware of people actively supporting are guide dogs and these are viewed as working dogs.
Pets are from an ethical point of view, animals enslaved to please a selfish person who cannot make connections with normal humans due to the effort needed - could be laziness or some medical issues. People should be supporting animal sanctuaries and pay to protect the animals homes if they really are animal lovers

You talk nonsense as you cannot possibly know what reason I have for keeping a dog
Remarkably my dog has developed a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome and doesn't care what you think

I find it interesting that for being a Scientist Alan2020's argument includes so many generalizations and assumptions.

My fiancee and I are really sociable people and love pets; how those two could be mutually exclusive I don't know...

Also, I don't really admire the US system but the fact that they have an Emotional Support Animal law shows an understanding of what pets can do for people's mental health...missing over here.

Yes but a lot of those “emotional support” animals are taking the proverbial. Pretty much anyone can claim they need one if they pay the right doctor a suitable sum of money. Emotional support peacocks and alligators, for heaven’s sake. 

Tokmon

Luisaandhercat said:

Seashell517 said:

OP - I understand that being told you can't have the cat and then keeping it goes against most people's wanting 'to do the right thing'. But in this case, I would honestly just wait and see if anything further happens. I can't see the directors wanting to spend money on getting your cat removed when it's indoor and therefore not directly effecting anybody else living in the block. (You would need to declare that you've breached the lease when selling, but I can't see that many people would be put off buying it because you kept a cat when the director's said no...)

Thank you for your comments. I will wait and see what their reply is now.

I wish it was not so black and white and more open to alternatives, as I said before: pay a penalty/fine for our mistake; whatever, but just let my cat live a nice peaceful life in a home where she's cared for deeply.

I don't understand the point of having a system that clearly doesn't work: many people have pets but haven't been reported, so they are in breach of their lease but it's OK; others like us, reported; others denied permission; others (like the actual Director who reported) having a visiting pet that she shares with someone else and brings into the building almost tip-toeing.

I admire a good system. This I find obsolete and causing misery. Just my opinion.

Well the system does work if you actually read the paperwork before you commit to buy somewhere. All the documents are available online before you even view the place so you could have downloaded them, read them and decided the place wasn't for you because you have a pet. You could have even actually read it properly when your solicitor sent it to you and told you to read through it.
You have moved into a flat that isn't suitable for your cat due to your own negligence and considering all the information was there before you committed then you can't blame anyone but yourself. 

Also i don't see the point of you paying a penalty because you would pay it but then still have to get rid of the cat so what would that achieve? 

Luisaandhercat

Tokmon said:

Luisaandhercat said:

Seashell517 said:

OP - I understand that being told you can't have the cat and then keeping it goes against most people's wanting 'to do the right thing'. But in this case, I would honestly just wait and see if anything further happens. I can't see the directors wanting to spend money on getting your cat removed when it's indoor and therefore not directly effecting anybody else living in the block. (You would need to declare that you've breached the lease when selling, but I can't see that many people would be put off buying it because you kept a cat when the director's said no...)

Thank you for your comments. I will wait and see what their reply is now.

I wish it was not so black and white and more open to alternatives, as I said before: pay a penalty/fine for our mistake; whatever, but just let my cat live a nice peaceful life in a home where she's cared for deeply.

I don't understand the point of having a system that clearly doesn't work: many people have pets but haven't been reported, so they are in breach of their lease but it's OK; others like us, reported; others denied permission; others (like the actual Director who reported) having a visiting pet that she shares with someone else and brings into the building almost tip-toeing.

I admire a good system. This I find obsolete and causing misery. Just my opinion.

Well the system does work if you actually read the paperwork before you commit to buy somewhere. All the documents are available online before you even view the place so you could have downloaded them, read them and decided the place wasn't for you because you have a pet. You could have even actually read it properly when your solicitor sent it to you and told you to read through it.
You have moved into a flat that isn't suitable for your cat due to your own negligence and considering all the information was there before you committed then you can't blame anyone but yourself. 

Also i don't see the point of you paying a penalty because you would pay it but then still have to get rid of the cat so what would that achieve? 

I understand well what we didn't do correctly, have admitted it, and will learn from it.

If you read my comment again, it is very clear why the system is failing in this place (not for me in particular, but for everyone).

I suggested paying a penalty because that is common practice in other places: you pay a penalty for your administrative mistake, e.g. not having asked for permission in advance and then constructive ways of working out things for both parties are discussed (I am not making this up...it exists and it's fairly common in many countries).

However, as another person suggested, we are just going round and round about this: different experiences, perceptions and beliefs.

I do understand we made the mistake; what I find hard to understand is why I will have to get rid of my cat and everyone else who has dogs in the Estate but haven't been reported don't have to. That is the key of the issue for me.

If it was the same for everyone I would accept it despite the pain of departing from my cat; but one of the Directors has said that the others have simply not been reported.

Luisaandhercat

elsien said:

Luisaandhercat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Alan2020 said:

wannabe_a_saver said:

I think your number 3 is a bit unfair.  There’s tons of medical evidence that dogs and cats are beneficial for mental health, none for peanuts! 

There isn’t any medical evidence from any credible source. Firstly having a pet is ethnically questionable, I highly doubt the animal has a free choice, it’s akin to animal slavery. Secondly, in the UK people aren’t into alternative mumbo jumbo. The only dogs I am aware of people actively supporting are guide dogs and these are viewed as working dogs.
Pets are from an ethical point of view, animals enslaved to please a selfish person who cannot make connections with normal humans due to the effort needed - could be laziness or some medical issues. People should be supporting animal sanctuaries and pay to protect the animals homes if they really are animal lovers

You talk nonsense as you cannot possibly know what reason I have for keeping a dog
Remarkably my dog has developed a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome and doesn't care what you think

I find it interesting that for being a Scientist Alan2020's argument includes so many generalizations and assumptions.

My fiancee and I are really sociable people and love pets; how those two could be mutually exclusive I don't know...

Also, I don't really admire the US system but the fact that they have an Emotional Support Animal law shows an understanding of what pets can do for people's mental health...missing over here.

Yes but a lot of those “emotional support” animals are taking the proverbial. Pretty much anyone can claim they need one if they pay the right doctor a suitable sum of money. Emotional support peacocks and alligators, for heaven’s sake. 

I have read about that; and that's exactly why "case by case" basis should be in place.

I have various English friends who have signed a petition here for ESA to become legal, so I am happy to learn that some people can understand the importance of context.

Luisaandhercat

another_casualty said:

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Luisaandhercat said:

cymruchris said:

Luisaandhercat said:

The garage is freehold. 

Just a thought to throw out here - if your garage is freehold - couldn't the cat be living there? And then it comes to visit you every day? Does the garage have any power? Could it be made to look as though the cat sleeps there at night? If other neighbours have dogs that come and visit - why can't you have a cat that comes and visits. 

This might be way off - and too simplistic - but it's just a thought to throw in the mix - as I don't know the exact layout - or what kind of garage it is, but you did mention it was freehold - so shouldn't be affected by the lease of the flat if you could demonstrate that was the cat's primary residence.

Thanks so much for your comment. That was exactly one of the ideas I gave my fiancee.

She was reluctant because the garage is separated from the apartment and she fears that our cat that never, ever meows (she does a "prrrrr" sound) may start meowing there, as not used to it, and then we would have a problem that we didn't have before.

Our garage is 25 m2 so a really good size and I'm more than happy to turn half the garage in kitty-paradise, if needs be (we park on the street). The garage is freehold indeed, hence the idea.

I was thinking that if they deny permission again, I could talk about that possibility.

I wasn't sure if it was a viable solution, but did seem possible to me.

Hope you are allowed to keep the cat , and that things work out .
However, do not put the cat in the garage ! It is not the same as being an indoor cat 
Weather temperatures , the noise of other animals plus the risk of foxes. 

Stay the way you are. Be humble to the directors . Wait until  you receive your next letter and take things from there. You could reply with, " it's a shame I have to move as it is a nice place" etc . It will take time to move anyway , plus Covid . 

Anyway , keep cat indoors and best of luck 🤞

On this note (be humble to the directors), my fiancee has written to the Director who reported the cat today.

My fiancee sent her a nice message and asked her whether it would be possible to have a conversation about the kitten. She told her she was more than welcome to come to our flat.

The Director responded saying that she is always happy to have a neighbourly chat but it is not fair to discuss Estate matters.

My fiancee then said she had contacted her because she thought as a Director she was the person to contact for guidance on Estate matters; and asked her whether she should contact another Director instead?

The Director came back saying that all Estate matters must go through the managing agent.

So, my fiancee was trying to act on the advice here by many people that the best course of action was to try and talk to the Director/s.

Is this because in your experiences they can be approached?

Is it the case for other people in leaseholds here that they can't talk to the Directors about Estate matters?

gingercordial

Luisaandhercat said:

Seashell517 said:

OP - I understand that being told you can't have the cat and then keeping it goes against most people's wanting 'to do the right thing'. But in this case, I would honestly just wait and see if anything further happens. I can't see the directors wanting to spend money on getting your cat removed when it's indoor and therefore not directly effecting anybody else living in the block. (You would need to declare that you've breached the lease when selling, but I can't see that many people would be put off buying it because you kept a cat when the director's said no...)

Thank you for your comments. I will wait and see what their reply is now.

I wish it was not so black and white and more open to alternatives, as I said before: pay a penalty/fine for our mistake; whatever, but just let my cat live a nice peaceful life in a home where she's cared for deeply.

I don't understand the point of having a system that clearly doesn't work: many people have pets but haven't been reported, so they are in breach of their lease but it's OK; others like us, reported; others denied permission; others (like the actual Director who reported) having a visiting pet that she shares with someone else and brings into the building almost tip-toeing.

I admire a good system. This I find obsolete and causing misery. Just my opinion.

But "just pay a fine and keep doing it" is not a fair solution.  When that is possible, it means that rich people can just break the rules and pay, and keep on breaking them because they know the rules do not really apply to them if they can afford it and the consequences don't "hurt".  Poorer people do not have that option.  How is that OK?

I live in a fancy area of London.  The local high street has nice shops but of course not much parking and is a bus route.  But occasionally somebody parks their Ferrari F40 supercar right outside the shops, on double yellow lines, not even parked straight.  I have seen them do it more than once.  Why should they bother parking further away when (if they can afford a £2 million car just to go to the shops) the fine is nothing to them?  

Believe me, I love pets and I think you should be given permission to keep the cat, but I do not think as a principle you should be allowed to pay a fine and still keep breaking the rules.

martindow

Luisaandhercat said:

Also, I don't really admire the US system but the fact that they have an Emotional Support Animal law shows an understanding of what pets can do for people's mental health...missing over here.

I'm not sure that there is a great difference in attitude in the US.  As I understand it, saying you have an emotional support animal is a strategy for taking you pet on a plane without having to pay a fee.