Yorkshire energy ?

by_eck

masonic said:

Well the other shoe has finally dropped, after chasing Octopus Energy repeatedly over them not having validated my opening meter readings, they have today told me that isn't how it works and they were expecting to receive readings from my old supplier...

It seems that even Which? recommended suppliers don't train their staff properly.

Bacman said:

What's the issue? The automated email confirms YE have issued the funds to SP who have allocated it to your account, if you have switched away then SP will forward you the funds. People who switched before getting their funds in the account will have a delay due to the paper trail and also why would SP be giving speedy service to customers who are switching away from them immediately?

 The issue is with Scottish Power's penchant for producing automated updates which have no bearing on the status of individual accounts, leading to contradictory and confusing advice. For example, some customers have received welcoming e-mails when they had already left, accounts moving from closed to "sorry you're leaving" and in this latest twist, a closed account bearing the promise "As your account's in credit, we'll automatically refund your balance into your bank account…" being superseded by an e-mail stating: " we're pleased to let you know that we'll apply your credit balance of £xxx.xx to your ScottishPower account. This will be shown on the next bill you receive from us". It seems that SP's billing system is incapable of distinguishing between live and closed accounts, past and present customers. One doesn't know what to believe from SP, as they seem quite capable of saying one thing and doing another.

I e-mailed SP for clarification on the repayment of my YE credit. I didn't think the problem sounded too complicated:-

"I have switched away from Scottish Power to another supplier, received my final SP bill and it has been paid by direct debit, so I don't owe you anything.

You have received the final credit from the YE administrators. My previously closed, now re-opened SP account, says that the credit will be paid into my bank account.

Today, I received an e-mail from you that said the credit would be added to my account and will be shown on my next bill.

There should be no next bill: the credit must be paid as promised and the account closed for good".

Their unambiguous, informative reply, in impeccable English, was:-

"Dear xxx,

Thank you for your recent email regarding your energy account xxxxx

We can see that you are contacting us regarding refund.

Yorkshire energy final credit £(a couple of hundred) can only be issued after 18.03.2021 as system is due to adjust it with final billing, hence request you to contact us after this to process it as refund to your bank account or via cheque".

Well, that explains everything, but didn't the statement on my account mention that the credit would be refunded automatically?

 

 

Tranboy

At last.  Just received my final bill from YE for £5.91  minus my £5.77 credit means I owe YE 14p. All I need now is an account number and bill from SP for the month with them until I joined Neon in early January.

[Deleted User]

masonic said:

Well the other shoe has finally dropped, after chasing Octopus Energy repeatedly over them not having validated my opening meter readings, they have today told me that isn't how it works and they were expecting to receive readings from my old supplier so are entering into a dispute with them. As far as I can see that's absolute rubbish and contradicted by their own website (moreover, SP have the same reads and have used them for my final bill without issue). It should not fall to the customer to explain to an energy company how their regulatory regime works, but it seems that is what I have to do.

I take it that you are entering into a dispute with Octopus rather than Octopus entering into a dispute with SP?   I have been aware of the following publication that seems to suggest that SP do indeed have a stake in the Change of Supplier billing process
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/82932/billingarrangementsduringthetransferprocess.pdf

Specifically section 2 (Existing Rules) and 2.06 where it states

The Code also makes it clear that on the opening or closing of an account, the old and new supplier are responsible for agreeing the meter reading at the time of transfer.

This implies that there is some kind of back channel involved in agreement of the same opening/closing read whereas all the documentation I have seen has expressed the view that it is the independent DC of the gaining supplier that is responsible for producing either a validated or deemed read which is then passed to old and new suppliers after their determination.  This is in fact stated further down in this document at section 4.01

In the electricity and gas markets, the responsibility for taking the CoS meter read for the transfer is on the gaining supplier.

In the electricity market, the gaining supplier will contact the customer to require a meter reading or arrange for the meter to be read by an agent. If no read is available, the gaining supplier’s data collector ‘deems’ a read using a defined process set out in the Balancing and Settlement Code and supported by the centrally-provided EAC/AA software. The gaining supplier’s data collector will then process the meter read and update the supplier’s system and MPAS. This reading will be used as the closing reading on the customer’s account with the losing supplier and as the opening reading with the gaining supplier. 

The section highlighted above is how I believe all suppliers should be operating.  Let us know how this pans out as I suspect I will be going down the same route with Avro trying to get an opening electricity read entered onto my account (be it validated or deemed).  The only difference in our cases is that in your case SP's final bill uses the correct changeover read wheras in mine they do not for electricity (gas was correct though using the read I supplied to Avro).

NYC1

I've got a discrepency with the opening gas reading with new supplier Octopus Energy.  If my final reading with SP is 8944 (which was also given to Octopus on the same day),  has been accepted and is on their final bill and the new supplier has an opening reading of 8889 is it worth fighting over?  I'm not sure if it's pennies or pounds?

Gerry1

NYC1 said:

I've got a discrepancy with the opening gas reading with new supplier Octopus Energy.  If my final reading with SP is 8944 (which was also given to Octopus on the same day),  has been accepted and is on their final bill and the new supplier has an opening reading of 8889 is it worth fighting over?  I'm not sure if it's pennies or pounds?<

If the figures aren't both the same, you can challenge it.

• Metric meter: 45m3, about 500kWh, around £14.

• Imperial meter: 45(00) ft3, about 1400kWh, around £40.

If the figures are the same but are different from your reading, you may be able to challenge it.

• Metric meter: 45m3, about 500kWh.  You can't challenge it.

• Imperial meter: 45(00) ft3, about 1400kWh.  You can challenge it.

by_eck

Re: DerwentMailman

Interesting. That paper was published c.2013 with a view to improving switchover billing, yet the procedure is still reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

[Deleted User]

by_eck said:

Re: DerwentMailman

Interesting. That paper was published c.2013 with a view to improving switchover billing, yet the procedure is still reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

Yes the paper is quite old but I was unable to find something that is more recent particularly with regard to regulations dealing with CoS (Change of Supplier) readings and how the parties involved (old/new suppliers, Data Collectors, customers, industry databases etc) should interact with one another.  What I do see are the various 'What happens when' information that suppliers such as Octopus, So , Bulb etc have on their websites realting to the opening read.  But as Masonic says in his post, what he has been told contradicts the information (about CoS readings) that Octopus have posted on their own website.  All in all a system not fit for the purpose leading for what can be much unnecessary faffing about for those customers who have dilgently sent in monthly meter reads (as I did with YE), give the opening read to the new suppliers (as I did first with SP and then with Avro) but who now find themselves somewhat in limbo and totally in the dark with no reason given for the delay.

masonic

DerwentMailman said:

masonic said:

Well the other shoe has finally dropped, after chasing Octopus Energy repeatedly over them not having validated my opening meter readings, they have today told me that isn't how it works and they were expecting to receive readings from my old supplier so are entering into a dispute with them. As far as I can see that's absolute rubbish and contradicted by their own website (moreover, SP have the same reads and have used them for my final bill without issue). It should not fall to the customer to explain to an energy company how their regulatory regime works, but it seems that is what I have to do.

I take it that you are entering into a dispute with Octopus rather than Octopus entering into a dispute with SP?   I have been aware of the following publication that seems to suggest that SP do indeed have a stake in the Change of Supplier billing process
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/82932/billingarrangementsduringthetransferprocess.pdf

Octopus are raising a dispute with SP. "This basically means that I will get in touch with the other supplier and let them know that we do not have an opening reading."

I have pointed out that this is incorrect and the opening read is visible on my account. They have responded with "We raised a dispute, which is an industry communication with another supplier to change the opening meter reading. We have sent our proposal to your old supplier and we are waiting on confirmation."

I don't know what is really happening. Is this just a late D0086 flow? I have seen papers discussing that this is not uncommon and suppliers are using their own workarounds to get around the lack of response from the data collector. SP and Octopus both have the same readings, SP is happy with them, while Octopus seems not to be, and I don't know if that's because they haven't had a response from the data collector, they've had a response and the read was not accepted, or something else.

I guess it must just be a late D0086, as if a response was received there would be no need for a dispute to be opened.

phillw

bagand96 said:
They attract the least loyal serial switcher customers, who are must be likely to switch away pronto (as evidenced in this thread!)

There were some yorkshire energy customers that had stayed with them for a long time.
It was unfortunate for SP that they took over in a period where some providers were offering really good deals and they were slowly disappearing before our eyes.

Fadacious

Still no word regarding my final bill. Also having this really weird "issue" with SP where I'm paying, but for some reason my DD are showing as credit and no bills have been generated by themselves for me either...very strange