BITCOIN

Scottex99

fwor said:

That's always the standard response - "you're a hater". But I'm not - I don't hate crypto in any way.

What I do dislike is the fact that MSE is generally a well-trusted site, and it frustrates me to see ramping threads like this, where all of the legal and operational issues get glossed over, because crypto has to be portrayed as the next great thing - to keep the money coming in and the values up.

In the example that Scottex chose, where someone transfers money from Japan to Brazil, what happens in the case of a dispute - the payer says that he has paid and the payee says he not been paid? In the "old fashioned" system, the banks produce their records and the courts decide on that basis. With crypto, will the courts in Tokyo accept that the blockchain has any legal status - will they trust what the blockchain says, see an entry made by a processor in (say) Mexico showing a transfer to a recipient in Brazil and decide in my favour? We don't know.

There is so much about the operational side of traditional "centralised" banking that can't be addressed in any easy way in a system where the components are distributed around the world in multiple legal jurisdictions, each operated by organisations that are not part of a "trusted" environment.

I don't call people haters, I'm just dismayed that people wouldn't do the research and write it off. Even if you wangt to do that, cool, up to you. There has been very little ramping here either. I say that I'm bullish long term and I'll be always buying and holding for many years but I don't try to cajole or convince anyone to do the same. In fact I'd actively tell my friends and my clients that when you're buying you need to come to terms with the fact that your investment could lose 50% of its value very quickly. On the flipside you could make a lot too. The standard of the forum has nothing to do with it imo. To me, I'm investing and I've made lots and lots more money than I ever would have buying Stocks or metals in the same time frame. If I believe my assets are safe, I think there is lots more to come, but I'm fairly "young" so I'm very pro risk.

There is no disputes in the blockchain btw, once the txn is mined/approved, it's there forever for all to see. 

Trust, regulation, safety, security etc are still major factors to be discussed but in the centralised and decentralised areas of crypto for sure but trust me when I say the pace of development is ridiculous and crypto is sucking up all the best talent from many industries.

BTC closing in on $50k, nice start to the weekend!

fwor

Scottex99 said:

There is no disputes in the blockchain btw, once the txn is mined/approved, it's there forever for all to see.

That's another example of how poorly thought-out Bitcoin is.

Pretty much anyone can put anything they like in the blockchain, and there is no practical way to take it out again. For example:

http://www.righto.com/2014/02/ascii-bernanke-wikileaks-photographs.html

So there is a digital photo of Nelson Mandela, extracts from Wikileaks, pornography and plenty of other completely irrelevant stuff in Bitcoin's "immutable" ledger, none of which can be removed. Recently, botnet operators have been placing their bot code in the Bitcoin blockchain, because it makes the botnet immune to all conventional "takedown" actions.

Flaws like this make it quite obvious that, rather than being a viable model for a cryptocurrency, Bitcoin was only ever a partly complete proof of concept. And yet people are still "investing" in it in the belief that it's the currency of the future.

Scottex99

Yet it’s never had 1 second of downtime in 12 years, the blocks keep churning and price keeps going up. I can @ you at 100k with everyone else if you like.

BTC is the flagship, the original, the first decentralised internet money, but it’s not the be all and end all of crypto either 

fwor

Scottex99 said:

Trust, regulation, safety, security etc are still major factors to be discussed

Seriously? That is quite an admission to make about something that has existed for fourteen years.

When I ask what happens when something goes wrong, you just shrug your shoulders and say "it's not for everyone" - your money may simply be gone. The legal status of the blockchain of the "flagship" cryptocurrency is unknown, untested and yet it's still the "flagship"?

Scottex99

Lol.

You do you, if it has so many obvious flaws then stay away, it’s not that difficult.

Let the rest of us crack on with building and creating new revolutionary financial things

fwor

Doesn't really matter what I think, but what's the view of a security professional like Bruce Schneier, who is a very highly regarded cryptologist, with decades of experience in security, cryptography and trust?

https://www.wired.com/story/theres-no-good-reason-to-trust-blockchain-technology/

Ok - it's not exactly an easy read, but here's the conclusion that he comes to:

Bruce Schneier said:

Honestly, cryptocurrencies are useless. They're only used by speculators looking for quick riches, people who don't like government-backed currencies, and criminals who want a black-market way to exchange money.

To answer the question of whether the blockchain is needed, ask yourself: Does the blockchain change the system of trust in any meaningful way, or just shift it around? Does it just try to replace trust with verification? Does it strengthen existing trust relationships, or try to go against them? How can trust be abused in the new system, and is this better or worse than the potential abuses in the old system? And lastly: What would your system look like if you didn’t use blockchain at all?

If you ask yourself those questions, it's likely you'll choose solutions that don't use public blockchain. And that'll be a good thing—especially when the hype dissipates.

Hmm... not exactly a fan, then...

Scottex99

And? Buffett is saying it’s worthless too, doesn’t make them right or me right either.

Fastest growing asset of all time probably takes it out of the “useless” category though

fwor

Scottex99 said:

Let the rest of us crack on with building and creating new revolutionary financial things

I certainly wouldn't consider using the word "pompous", but isn't this a slightly grand view of your own role in the creation of "new financial things"? As i understand your job (and your purpose here in continuing to promote crypto) you just make money buying and selling cryptocurrencies as their values rise and fall?

Or do you have some other more productive role in the field?

Scottex99

fwor said:

Scottex99 said:

Let the rest of us crack on with building and creating new revolutionary financial things

I certainly wouldn't consider using the word "pompous", but isn't this a slightly grand view of your own role in the creation of "new financial things"? As i understand your job (and your purpose here in continuing to promote crypto) you just make money buying and selling cryptocurrencies as their values rise and fall?

Or do you have some other more productive role in the field?

Yeah, the royal we I'm using here.

But I do work for and co-founded a trading firm that has traded will over a billion in the the last 3 years and is now raising on crowdcube at a 55m valuation, so I have some idea of who the players are in the space and I see new protocols every day.

I couldn't even tell you exactly how the tech behind mining txns works or how smart contracts work either, I'm not overly technical. But they do work and the assets have found new price levels accordingly.

We're building a new retail app with health incentives, that helps the environment and we have an eye on social functions not just purely price speculation, although even my missus has trebled her money since I showed her how to buy some coins earlier in the year.

Actually go back and read the full thread if you want, the only promotion I do is correcting the myths that people have about BTC, saying I'm personally bullish on crypto and I work in the industry. Do you really think I want you to invest £1k into BTC to pump my bags and that's why I'm on here?

fwor

Scottex99 said:

Do you really think I want you to invest £1k into BTC to pump my bags and that's why I'm on here?

This is an internet forum, so I've absolutely no idea.

The various claims about what might happen at some point in the future are fine - when honestly described as such.

What is annoying is when people start saying ridiculous things that are plainly not true, simply because they ~need~ to generate interest in Bitcoin to keep new money coming in.