BITCOIN

InvesterJones

Section62 said:

MeteredOut said:

With the stock market in such a turmoil, I though I'd check out how BTC was holding up as as store of wealth. Looks like its held up better than the major indices, but not as good as gold. $100K seems quite a way off now (but we know things can move quick).

Do people still think BTC a viable store of wealth as an alternative to gold?

Not seem much mention of crypto from the orange man recently either.

I nearly posted on this thread yesterday (it had been quiet for a while) as there was a BBC website live reporting comment about Bitcoin/crypto prices... the gist (roughly) was that Bitcoin was dropping too, rather than being seen as a 'safe haven' away from equities.  As I remember someone was quoted making the point that at times like this fear makes people want to avoid risk, and crypto still represents a riskier proposition than stockmarkets.

If I can find the comment again I'll post a link or screenshot... unfortunately the BBC live reporting stuff is not always easy to find again.  Apologies in advance if my recollection differs from the original source.

At pensioncraft they reckon bitcoin basically acts as leveraged nasdaq, rather than a diversifier.

Scottex99

Section62 said:

MeteredOut said:

With the stock market in such a turmoil, I though I'd check out how BTC was holding up as as store of wealth. Looks like its held up better than the major indices, but not as good as gold. $100K seems quite a way off now (but we know things can move quick).

Do people still think BTC a viable store of wealth as an alternative to gold?

Not seem much mention of crypto from the orange man recently either.

I nearly posted on this thread yesterday (it had been quiet for a while) as there was a BBC website live reporting comment about Bitcoin/crypto prices... the gist (roughly) was that Bitcoin was dropping too, rather than being seen as a 'safe haven' away from equities.  As I remember someone was quoted making the point that at times like this fear makes people want to avoid risk, and crypto still represents a riskier proposition than stockmarkets.

If I can find the comment again I'll post a link or screenshot... unfortunately the BBC live reporting stuff is not always easy to find again.  Apologies in advance if my recollection differs from the original source.

The dream “end-game” is probably that BTC decouples from traditional financial assets and becomes that store of value in a future crisis. Like gold, but digital and better.

That time isn’t here though and it seems when stocks dump, crypto does too.

Although ~$80k isn’t too bad if you’ve held for any decent length of time.

I’ve probably held 100+ different coins/tokens over the years but these choppy markets (and the memecoin shenanigans) are making me more of a Bitcoin maxi every day

MeteredOut

Scottex99 said:

Section62 said:

MeteredOut said:

With the stock market in such a turmoil, I though I'd check out how BTC was holding up as as store of wealth. Looks like its held up better than the major indices, but not as good as gold. $100K seems quite a way off now (but we know things can move quick).

Do people still think BTC a viable store of wealth as an alternative to gold?

Not seem much mention of crypto from the orange man recently either.

I nearly posted on this thread yesterday (it had been quiet for a while) as there was a BBC website live reporting comment about Bitcoin/crypto prices... the gist (roughly) was that Bitcoin was dropping too, rather than being seen as a 'safe haven' away from equities.  As I remember someone was quoted making the point that at times like this fear makes people want to avoid risk, and crypto still represents a riskier proposition than stockmarkets.

If I can find the comment again I'll post a link or screenshot... unfortunately the BBC live reporting stuff is not always easy to find again.  Apologies in advance if my recollection differs from the original source.

The dream “end-game” is probably that BTC decouples from traditional financial assets and becomes that store of value in a future crisis. Like gold, but digital and better.

That time isn’t here though and it seems when stocks dump, crypto does too.

Although ~$80k isn’t too bad if you’ve held for any decent length of time.

I’ve probably held 100+ different coins/tokens over the years but these choppy markets (and the memecoin shenanigans) are making me more of a Bitcoin maxi every day

I cant disagree with that. If someone asked me to recommend the single crypto asset they'd be least likely to lose all their money on, it'd be BTC.

Scottex99

i was in a national park in Cork on a horse and cart, of all places, and the horse man asked me which cryptos to buy…

then in Galway yesterday a jeweler asked if accepting payment in crypto could be a good idea.

both in response to me being asked what I do for a living.

BTC is and has always been the call really, buy monthly set and forget, or buy some extreme dips if you see them, with money you can “afford” to lose 

Scottex99

https://open.spotify.com/track/6O7SkBNhaO90fxjukN8h5B?si=7d6b20729eb9422f

Funny with potential elements of truth.

$111k, money printers about to be turned on, Japan and US bond markets in the bin...

Previously sell in May and go away was the play in past cycles, it doesn't look like it's going to be this time.

How how can it go and will Alts follow? Crystal ball time

Moose1960

Surprisingly quiet in here.

How are my fellow hodlers? Happy?

User232002

Feeling vindicated. Identified the debasement trade before it was a thing. Net worth at ATH. If you held on to your Bitcoin through that bear market, don't let anyone ever tell you it was 'luck.'

But its tough to be happy when you know the pain that is coming down the road for most people. 

Cus

Based on the last 5 years, in dollar terms:

Bitcoin - up 94%

Gold - up 172%

S&P - up 78%

How should I interpret this? What is the opinion of the users on this thread who are big supporters of bitcoin?

MeteredOut

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81870789#Comment_81870789

I'm not sure it is possible to interpret it in any meaningful way. BTC is obviously taking a bit of a beating just now, but anyone choosing to invest in it should not be surprised.

BTC now only up 72% over 5 years, below the S&P 500 level at 74%

I wonder if any of the proponents are now investing in BTC at this level? To the moon?

phlebas192

S&P 500 has an 84% return over the past 5 years including dividends - always important to remember these when comparing to something that has no cash flow! Even the boring FTSE has a 79% total return.

Of course, the real advantage of Bitcoin according to its proponents is that it will ultimately replace fiat currency (and the problem for everyone else is that it will not). If that should ever occur then its future value in dollars (or pounds, euros, yen etc) will be infinite. But if this does not happen then the only logical end value is zero. So essentially you have an "asset" which is valued somewhere between infinite (with, IMHO, 0% chance of it happening) and zero. ie it is impossible to assign a value based on future worth without making a judgement call on future use - and the result of that call is either inifinite or zero. It is literally something that is impossible to value based on its current economic worth.

Crypto bulls claim that it is a store of value that can protect against inflation or government interference in the monetary supply. Ditto for those who advocate for gold. The latter can at least point to the current relatively limited supply of the metal along with a strong consumer and moderate industrial demand (albeit that these could be destroyed by future techological advances) but crypto has no intrinsic value despite it's actual limits on supply.

Looking to the future, I have no idea whether BTC should be worth $1, $10,000, $100,000, $1m or more. And I don't think anyone remotely sensible does either. If it should replace fiat currency then it would make sense to own at least a small amount but the chances of that are so small that you might as well wait for a very long time before making the switch.

One thing for sure, there's going to be some very good books written about the crypto phenomenon. I Just wish John Kenneth Galbraith was still around as he would write a real doozy.