BITCOIN

Adyinvestment

fwor said:

Adyinvestment said:

why would they when a lot of what they offer can be done much quicker, easier and cheaper on blockchain?

All of the cash transfers and payments that I do via my bank cost me nothing as individual transactions, and my overall banking service is free. My credit card payments actually pay me money, as I have a cashback card. I've never paid any fees to my credit card provider. And it's all managed online via my phone - can crypto transactions really be easier than that?

Going a little off topic to Bitcoin on its own.

To compare those 2 handpicked to your situation examples is probably a fraction of a fraction of a percent as to how crypto will be quicker, easier and cheaper for so many people around the world with future financial transactions, take a look at the below where you can see just some of the ways it will disrupt the current banking system.

blockchain-disrupting-banking

Lending, borrowing, mortgages, remittances, trade finance, securities, KYC, clearance, settlements...

And this is just in regards to banking which is just one part of what blockchain/crypto will eventually be used for.

Section62

tranquility1 said:

Tesco told me directly, over the phone, that they are NOT liable for my dealing with Coinbase.  They told me that they were following other banks and making harder to deal crypto as a matter of policy.

But I won't listen to Tesco Bank.  I'll instead take the word of Section62 who posts on chat forums.

Well it isn't unknown for posters on this 'chat' forum to occasionally be right and something a bank employee has said was wrong.

But that wasn't my point.

The point was that both the Tesco Bank employee and Malthusian could be right - because in the context of payments for gambling, or trading, or buying crypto, there are two separate meanings for 'losses'.

If the Tesco Bank employee was talking about scenarios in which the FOS are likely to side with the customer (e.g. APP fraud) then they were wrong. If the ombudsman decides Tesco are liable then that's about the long and short of it.

fwor

One of the characteristics of crypto shill threads is that eventually the shills start saying ridiculous things.

The last example I can think of was "the ultra-rich use crypto as a store of their wealth", which is plainly laughable.

And now crypto is "Quicker, easier and cheaper" than conventional bank transactions. But now Ady is rowing back, and what "can be done" is now what ~might~  happen.

In case you're in any doubt (from my obvious example) I'm talking about now - not at some undefined point in the future.

So how about an example: how long does my Bitcoin transaction take to get processed? Answer: nobody knows! There is no first-in-first out rule - in fact there is no rule at all. The length of time is purely down to whoever gets to process your transaction. If they are busy, it could be slow. If lots of people pay more for their transaction, they jump the queue ahead of you. How is that "quicker"? It cannot be described as in any way better than the current banking system.

And before you say "Ah yes, but that's just Bitcoin" bear in mind that Bitcoin is what this thread is (supposedly) about.

fwor

Scottex99 said:

Try to wire JPY from a Bank in Tokyo to a bank in Brazil, then see how long it takes, how much it costs and if it can even be done.

Then do the exact same value of transfer via USDC and it'll land in 60 seconds from your wallet to mine

Ah Scottex - thanks, you're always ready with a nice real-world example that the average man in the street can relate to!

So... let's take the case where there's a problem, and the transfer does ~not~ land in 60 seconds. What would the average man in the street do about that? What regulator would look at the case and adjudicate for me, as a UK citizen, transferring Yen from Japan to Brazil? How would such a problem be resolved fairly?

Adyinvestment

fwor said:

One of the characteristics of crypto shill threads is that eventually the shills start saying ridiculous things.

The last example I can think of was "the ultra-rich use crypto as a store of their wealth", which is plainly laughable.

And now crypto is "Quicker, easier and cheaper" than conventional bank transactions. But now Ady is rowing back, and what "can be done" is now what ~might~  happen.

In case you're in any doubt (from my obvious example) I'm talking about now - not at some undefined point in the future.

So how about an example: how long does my Bitcoin transaction take to get processed? Answer: nobody knows! There is no first-in-first out rule - in fact there is no rule at all. The length of time is purely down to whoever gets to process your transaction. If they are busy, it could be slow. If lots of people pay more for their transaction, they jump the queue ahead of you. How is that "quicker"? It cannot be described as in any way better than the current banking system.

And before you say "Ah yes, but that's just Bitcoin" bear in mind that Bitcoin is what this thread is (supposedly) about.

6 month's ago I could have written this

I do agree that this is a Bitcoin thread and that other crypto's should have their own separate space.

I actually agree with you that Bitcoin itself is not going to solve/improve/disrupt the banking system, I am of the opinion that Bitcoin is the only sole store of digital value and will always need layer 2's for transactions etc.

Other crypto's will (in my opinion) be what eventually changes and improve everything else mentioned and should probably be discussed separately, I see these as utility tokens that similar to stocks should be valued accordingly - the vast majority would be massively overpriced as a stock and get their value through hyper speculation and FOMO frenzy, Bitcoin actually is very tame compared to many of these...this will not stop many of them going parabolic in price if we are indeed in a Bitcoin bull run and unfortunately many people will get recked. Alt coins in general (apart from a few blue chips) are still like the Wild West.

Adyinvestment

To add to my above post, I wanted to say that I personally have not cashed any profit from Bitcoin/crypto and don't recommend any new people enter without first doing due diligence - this is very early and very volatile, especially alt coins will almost certainly pump and dump.

Scottex99

fwor said:

Scottex99 said:

Try to wire JPY from a Bank in Tokyo to a bank in Brazil, then see how long it takes, how much it costs and if it can even be done.

Then do the exact same value of transfer via USDC and it'll land in 60 seconds from your wallet to mine

Ah Scottex - thanks, you're always ready with a nice real-world example that the average man in the street can relate to!

So... let's take the case where there's a problem, and the transfer does ~not~ land in 60 seconds. What would the average man in the street do about that? What regulator would look at the case and adjudicate for me, as a UK citizen, transferring Yen from Japan to Brazil? How would such a problem be resolved fairly?

Haha fair enough, was a bit obscure.

I'll give a better example that I personally see every single day and one of the reason my company makes a good bit of revenue. Not related to the average man but the same way a 800m syndicated libor loan isn't either.

You're a company in an industry that is perfectly legal but traditionally has been hard to get banking. Gaming/Gambling, FX, CBD, !!!!!!, Crypto, etc etc. "High Risk". You're owed money from another business/client/partner in the space. They are in Poland and you are in London, they owe you £100k, how are you going to get it?

We do this everyday for firms, in the millions. Coins (generally stablecoins USDT/C etc because less volatile) come into us on behalf of various clients and we flip them to EUR/GBP/USD and get the "real money" paid out.

To be more general, BTC is speculative store of value right now, so is ETH.
Stablecoins are for buying stuff, in my case just more crypto lol

fwor

Errr... yes, but that doesn't answer my question. What happens (for the average man in the street) when a transaction goes wrong?

What regulator adjudicates for a transaction in Yen going from Japan to Brazil (your example)? How do problems get resolved fairly, and who enforces the outcome of an adjudication?

Scottex99

fwor said:

Errr... yes, but that doesn't answer my question. What happens (for the average man in the street) when a transaction goes wrong?

What regulator adjudicates for a transaction in Yen going from Japan to Brazil (your example)? How do problems get resolved fairly, and who enforces the outcome of an adjudication?

Nothing happens, if you make a major mistake it's on you. Sent to an invalid address, lose your seed phrase, use the wrong blockchain etc and your coins are gone. This is the drawback of having decentralized finance. I've personally moved hundreds of Ks worth of crypto through a large amounts of wallets and yep I've lost some coins along the way but that's part of the learning process. It's not for everyone, it doesn't have to be. 

fwor

Scottex99 said:

It's not for everyone, it doesn't have to be. 

Yes, but while that is true, it is in no way "Quicker, easier and cheaper" than the existing banking system.

And as I don't see any prospect of that issue - and other similar ones - being solved, it's not likely to be for the foreseeable future.