BITCOIN

bugbyte_2

adindas said:. 

....

If you could fall into this low-level scam, you should not be getting involved in investing / trading in individual stock, various assets just buy Vanguard Life Strategy (VL). I know this product is very popular here on MSE, as it has been mentioned here almost every single week. There is nothing wrong with it.

But what is wrong here is that every time the people are mentioning other investment possibilities, assets, investing in inividual stock they will get attacked from people who just want to stay in their comfort zone.

I think you are shooting and missing here. Nothing to do with comfort zone / not understanding / being old / Warren Buffet fan bois / etc. more to do with balance. As been mentioned lots of times, people read MSE because they think they are getting good advice, therefore it is on ALL of us to show both sides of the coin. We can actually learn from each other you know, the Internet does not have to be an echo chamber where we just confirm our own views. In that respect, my viewpoint below is not an attack - just another viewpoint.

China has not stepped in and rescued its construction industry. Evergrande Group is considered too big to fail, just like our banks in 2008. Its share price has a 52 wk high of $4 and a low this week of 32c. If China's economy tanks, which some think it will, then an enormous amount of money will flow out of China. A run on China's markets is the last thing China's government wants so they have taken measures to make sure options to move money out - including Crypto - are not available to Chinese nationals. The US1933 Gold Reserve Act is in my view surprisingly similar. If this works, there is nothing stopping all other large economies doing exactly the same - making all holdings in crypto highly restricted. When it comes to investing in Bitcoin you could take the view that the above is unlikely, and a global dip will drive a new time high or you could take the view it is going to get obliviated. 

Its then down to risk. I personally believe after the sell offs in Boohoo (£3.80 down to £1.90) and ASOS this week were massively overdone and there is a much, much better chance of them rising 30% in the near term than BTC, with a lot less risk. There is always opportunity.

Hexane

adindas said:

There are a few people have said Bitcoin or other major cryptos is a scam because they lost money, they are getting scammed due to their own naivety.

They lost money because they bought them at the peak and then when the price drops 30% (say) they do panic selling. When they lost money similar to losing money in any other assets or investment product they will say those “investment product is a scam”. Eveyone could lose money in investing in any asset, even the best hedgies in the world. But investing in any assest itself is not a scam.

They might also get phishing scams, where the scammer asks them to share their private keys, which are used to secure their cryptocurrency wallets, so the scammers can access those people account and steal their cryptocurrency. They might also get contacted by scammer randomly via email, offering an unmissable cryptocurrency investment opportunity. When they lost their coin they will say Bitcoin is a scam.

Totally correct.

adindas

Section62 said:

darren232002 said:

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Sure, have it your way then darren232002.  Nobody has ever been scammed buying, holding or selling Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a 100% 99.999999% statistically safe investment because of the returns.

Nothing to see here.


We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Well, investment and safe will never go hand in hand. There is always a risk you might lose your initial outlay.

If you want safe, it is saving account paying <1% interest that is safe as it is guaranteed you will get <1% return and you will not loose your initial outlay.

Those who claim their investment product is safe, that is what you will call a scammer.

Section62

adindas said:

Section62 said:

darren232002 said:

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Sure, have it your way then darren232002.  Nobody has ever been scammed buying, holding or selling Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a 100% 99.999999% statistically safe investment because of the returns.

Nothing to see here.


We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Well, investment and safe will never go hand in hand. There is always a risk you might lose your initial outlay.

If you want safe, it is saving account paying <1% interest that is safe as it is guaranteed you will get <1% return and you will not loose your initial outlay.

Those who claim their investment product is safe, that is what you will call a scammer.

Which is why I wrote -

Anything which implies great performance is a reliable indicator of the safety of any investment doesn't deserve to be on a forum like this one without some cautionary balance.

That somehow darren232002 managed to read as -

Slightly less of an idiot: "Well, results aren't necessarily indicative of value"

So after all that, it turns out you agree with me adindas.

adindas

Which is why I wrote -

Anything which implies great performance is a reliable indicator of the safety of any investment doesn't deserve to be on a forum like this one without some cautionary balance.

Well, IMO Everyone getting involved in investment must understand the risk they are taking. The product called investment will never be safe. Even you invest in index fund just look at when there is a market crash you might see your investment down 40%+  in less than a week.

But keep in mind high risk will correlate with high Reward. No-one rational would want to take the risk for nothing, .

You invest in BTC it will give you return 200%+, You invest in Tesla (TSLA) it will also give you a return 100%. You put it into saving account very safe but return is <1%. All of that are fine, depending what you are looking for. But you often see people complaining about the very low return of their saving, while demonizing the people who are willing to take more risk in return for a much higher reward. There are some people in this forum even  call BTC is a scam and therefore people who invest in BTC are idiots. For the people like this you often see from their posting demonstrate that they have very little understanding of what Blockchain, BTC, altcoins could do as, very little experience in taking high risk/high reward investment products. 

There are some people want to take the risk based on informed decision. Reasonably informed People will only take the risk when the reward is overwhelmingly high. To me along with some other people BTC, other major cryptos, high growth stock meet that criterion. But other people might have different opinion. 

IMO It is up to people to choose, and the forum like this is meant to be used as information exchange or sharing info. There are a lot of info I get from this forum, from other people.

RolandFlagg

It's all about risk tolerance and common sense.

Richard Thaler has spoken of Myopic Loss Aversion. This is where people panic sell because we hate the thought of losing money (on paper) far more than we enjoy making money. This frame of mind causes short term thinking, and even if we do have a long term view (we should have a time frame of 20 years or more), we vastly reduce our gains by playing it too safe by investing too heavily into dividend stocks, gold and bonds.

The billionaire investor Bill Miller, who now has Bitcoin in his portfolio recently said "Volatility is the price you pay for performance"

Even Warren Buffett once wrote that investors often think that risk and volatility are the same thing, when they are not.

Bitcoin needs to be treated like a hyper growth stock. You don't bet the farm on it, and like Amazon and Tesla in the past it could easily lose 90% of it's value. But that doesn't mean it will be dead or a scam.

The blockchain IMO will prove to be more important than the internet, and to have a small amount of your portfolio in it over the next one to two decades will give great rewards, but you just have to stay the course.

Remember:
There will be a huge transfer of wealth to millennials in the upcoming years. The vast majority of those have grown up hating the banks, and now have apps on their smartphones to invest/trade assets.
They will not be buying gold. They will be buying growth stocks and crypto.

If you want to be successful in the next couple of decades you are going to have to see the investing world through their eyes, not your own.

As for Bitcoin:
In western countries, it will prove to be a better store of value than Gold.

In countries of hyper inflation with the local currency being devalued and the weak dollar being a poor alternative it will prove a safe haven from corrupt governments.

And in third world countries it will prove a faster and cheaper alternative to sending money by the likes of Western Union.

Evolve or Die.

Adyinvestment

$280 million put into the new Bitcoin ETF in its first 20 minutes of trading, one of the biggest ETF openings (top 15) in history and more than $GLD.

Can't deny that is pretty impressive!

Scottex99

onthebench said:

The trouble with having 1% of your portfolio in bitcoin is that it keeps turning into more than 1% of your portfolio. 

Hahaha, I’ve got 40 other comments to read but just wanted to say well played here

Scottex99

Hexane said:

Scottex99 said:

YellowStarling said:

Genuine question:  for those knocking Bitcoin, do they (consciously or not) substitute "cryptocurrency" (as a whole) with it, or not?  In other words, are those not in favour of Bitcoin also not in favour of other cryptocurrency projects, or just Bitcoin?  I know the title of this thread is specific but some posts appear more aimed at the crypto space in general, hence my question.

Just wondering whether any anti-BTC are more bullish on alternative projects, perhaps those that are aiming for the scalability/TPS targets more akin to fiat monetary systems, or smart contract/app networks, or something else.  E.g. Proof-of-Stake projects like Ethereum 2.0, Cardano, Polkadot, or hashgraph projects like Hedera, etc.

Oh and see you at $100k BTC in a few months. Peace

That was on 13th April 2021. Six months down the line, BTC seems to be at around $59,000

So it's gone basically nowhere in that time, other than down a lot and back up again.

Need another "few months"?

Lol like that would somehow make you right and me wrong?

I’ve said 50 times on here I don’t know where the price is going short term, except long term I’m almost certain up and to the right.

Everyone here that is bullish has already held through multiple harsh crashes, it’s volatile, it comes with the territory. In fact not only did I hold, I bought all the way down and back up again. 

So yeah, see you at 100k, don’t worry I’ll come and find this post first to let you know when it happens 

Zola.

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/1450555490912591873?t=VkuRqqtwrH_Zd84zJBbumA&amp;s=19