BITCOIN

Michael121

adindas said:

I remember someone here is saying BTC is a scam, lol. Also, someone is saying he did not believe in BTC just because Warren Buffet, Charlie Munger are saying so.

That's not exactly what i said. Anyway you've been pound cost averaging BTC for 5mins and now your blowing your trumpet already.

You missed the boat last year, what was it 4-5k into 60k. When markets crash for 50% plus, when ever that is you can put high odds on BTC dropping 90%. What do you think is more likely BTC crashes 90% or 10xs to 600k. I think pound cost averaging BTC is madness. If you want to gamble at least wait for a huge crash.

Zola.

People pound cost average in as there are no guarantees that a 90% crash will continue to happen as the asset gets more globally accepted etc. As it gets more adoption the gains should slow as should the huge hair cuts...

User232002

Section62 said:

darren232002 said:

In any event, whats the point of this? If you want to discuss probabilistic models of various investments and how far they can deviate from their mean expected or underlying value then start a thread discussing such. Posting this in a Bitcoin thread whilst simultaneously stating that it isn't a comment on Bitcoin is pointless. 

Which was that the proposition put forward by adindas, that equates to 'look at the profits, this can't be a scam' is a dangerous suggestion on a consumer-orientated forum where people frequently arrive asking "This investment looks too good to be true, is it a scam?"

Anything which implies great performance is a reliable indicator of the safety of any investment doesn't deserve to be on a forum like this one without some cautionary balance.

You keep restating this as if its sage advice, when its just a slightly better, but still deeply flawed, understanding of reality. 

Idiot: "Number go up, therefore investment good"
Slightly less of an idiot: "Well, results aren't necessarily indicative of value"
The actual truth: "Results can indeed be evidence ranging from statistically insignificant to incredibly informative depending on the timeframe we are looking at, extension from the expectation and the variance expected."

Given what we've seen with Bitcoin, #1 and #2 are both as stupid as each other.

Section62 said:

As for Bitcoin, very few people would claim the cryptocurrency space is free from scams, I'm pretty sure pros like Scottex have made that point themselves.

So, without getting bogged down in an argument about whether BTC is or isn't, there should be a relative consensus here that any investment requires some research and knowledge, and a simplistic 'look at the profits' approach to due diligence is one which is deeply flawed.

My view FWIW, is one of the serious threats to cryptocurrency is the scamming circulating around it, not the nature of the currencies themselves.  Folks who are serious/professional about cryptocurrency, who can't see the danger in remarks like the one adindas made, and who won't tolerate any discussion around the subject of scams/fraud, really need to give their heads a bit of a wobble.  Bitcoin won't be crashed by the 'boomers' having nothing to do with it, it will be crashed by the pseudo-experts who encourage others to dive in without due care.  They are the ones you need to watch out for.

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Section62

darren232002 said:

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Sure, have it your way then darren232002.  Nobody has ever been scammed buying, holding or selling Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a 100% 99.999999% statistically safe investment because of the returns.

Nothing to see here.


We are going to have to agree to disagree.

adindas

There are a few people have said Bitcoin or other major cryptos is a scam because they lost money, they are getting scammed due to their own naivety.

They lost money because they bought them at the peak and then when the price drops 30% (say) they do panic selling. When they lost money similar to losing money in any other assets or investment product they will say those “investment product is a scam”. Eveyone could lose money in investing in any asset, even the best hedgies in the world. But investing in any assest itself is not a scam.

They might also get phishing scams, where the scammer asks them to share their private keys, which are used to secure their cryptocurrency wallets, so the scammers can access those people account and steal their cryptocurrency. They might also get contacted by scammer randomly via email, offering an unmissable cryptocurrency investment opportunity. When they lost their coin they will say Bitcoin is a scam.

How come Blockchain is a scam when it is just a ledger. People have been using ledger for ages to record transaction The only different is that this blockchain ledger here is “immutable”.

If you could fall into this low-level scam, you should not be getting involved in investing / trading in individual stock, various assets just buy Vanguard Life Strategy (VL). I know this product is very popular here on MSE, as it has been mentioned here almost every single week. There is nothing wrong with it.

But what is wrong here is that every time the people are mentioning other investment possibilities, assets, investing in inividual stock they will get attacked from people who just want to stay in their comfort zone.

bugbyte_2

adindas said:. 

....

If you could fall into this low-level scam, you should not be getting involved in investing / trading in individual stock, various assets just buy Vanguard Life Strategy (VL). I know this product is very popular here on MSE, as it has been mentioned here almost every single week. There is nothing wrong with it.

But what is wrong here is that every time the people are mentioning other investment possibilities, assets, investing in inividual stock they will get attacked from people who just want to stay in their comfort zone.

I think you are shooting and missing here. Nothing to do with comfort zone / not understanding / being old / Warren Buffet fan bois / etc. more to do with balance. As been mentioned lots of times, people read MSE because they think they are getting good advice, therefore it is on ALL of us to show both sides of the coin. We can actually learn from each other you know, the Internet does not have to be an echo chamber where we just confirm our own views. In that respect, my viewpoint below is not an attack - just another viewpoint.

China has not stepped in and rescued its construction industry. Evergrande Group is considered too big to fail, just like our banks in 2008. Its share price has a 52 wk high of $4 and a low this week of 32c. If China's economy tanks, which some think it will, then an enormous amount of money will flow out of China. A run on China's markets is the last thing China's government wants so they have taken measures to make sure options to move money out - including Crypto - are not available to Chinese nationals. The US1933 Gold Reserve Act is in my view surprisingly similar. If this works, there is nothing stopping all other large economies doing exactly the same - making all holdings in crypto highly restricted. When it comes to investing in Bitcoin you could take the view that the above is unlikely, and a global dip will drive a new time high or you could take the view it is going to get obliviated. 

Its then down to risk. I personally believe after the sell offs in Boohoo (£3.80 down to £1.90) and ASOS this week were massively overdone and there is a much, much better chance of them rising 30% in the near term than BTC, with a lot less risk. There is always opportunity.

Hexane

adindas said:

There are a few people have said Bitcoin or other major cryptos is a scam because they lost money, they are getting scammed due to their own naivety.

They lost money because they bought them at the peak and then when the price drops 30% (say) they do panic selling. When they lost money similar to losing money in any other assets or investment product they will say those “investment product is a scam”. Eveyone could lose money in investing in any asset, even the best hedgies in the world. But investing in any assest itself is not a scam.

They might also get phishing scams, where the scammer asks them to share their private keys, which are used to secure their cryptocurrency wallets, so the scammers can access those people account and steal their cryptocurrency. They might also get contacted by scammer randomly via email, offering an unmissable cryptocurrency investment opportunity. When they lost their coin they will say Bitcoin is a scam.

Totally correct.

adindas

Section62 said:

darren232002 said:

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Sure, have it your way then darren232002.  Nobody has ever been scammed buying, holding or selling Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a 100% 99.999999% statistically safe investment because of the returns.

Nothing to see here.


We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Well, investment and safe will never go hand in hand. There is always a risk you might lose your initial outlay.

If you want safe, it is saving account paying <1% interest that is safe as it is guaranteed you will get <1% return and you will not loose your initial outlay.

Those who claim their investment product is safe, that is what you will call a scammer.

Section62

adindas said:

Section62 said:

darren232002 said:

What the hell are you on about? This is a Bitcoin thread. Its for the discussion of buying and holding Bitcoin. Exchanges recommended have been Coinbase and Binance. Where is the scam? What you're describing is the boogeyman; it doesn't exist here. Nobody is on here shilling SHIBA or SAFEMOON and when they do they promptly get told to sod off. I've posted multiple times on this forum that ADA and XRP have little value and that people shouldn't be buying them.

The point put forward by adindas, that buying Bitcoin isn't a scam because of its past performance, is almost certainly statistically true. The argument doesn't apply to other coins / tokens that are much newer - but nobody here, including adindas, is suggesting that's the case anyway. 

Sure, have it your way then darren232002.  Nobody has ever been scammed buying, holding or selling Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a 100% 99.999999% statistically safe investment because of the returns.

Nothing to see here.


We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Well, investment and safe will never go hand in hand. There is always a risk you might lose your initial outlay.

If you want safe, it is saving account paying <1% interest that is safe as it is guaranteed you will get <1% return and you will not loose your initial outlay.

Those who claim their investment product is safe, that is what you will call a scammer.

Which is why I wrote -

Anything which implies great performance is a reliable indicator of the safety of any investment doesn't deserve to be on a forum like this one without some cautionary balance.

That somehow darren232002 managed to read as -

Slightly less of an idiot: "Well, results aren't necessarily indicative of value"

So after all that, it turns out you agree with me adindas.

adindas

Which is why I wrote -

Anything which implies great performance is a reliable indicator of the safety of any investment doesn't deserve to be on a forum like this one without some cautionary balance.

Well, IMO Everyone getting involved in investment must understand the risk they are taking. The product called investment will never be safe. Even you invest in index fund just look at when there is a market crash you might see your investment down 40%+  in less than a week.

But keep in mind high risk will correlate with high Reward. No-one rational would want to take the risk for nothing, .

You invest in BTC it will give you return 200%+, You invest in Tesla (TSLA) it will also give you a return 100%. You put it into saving account very safe but return is <1%. All of that are fine, depending what you are looking for. But you often see people complaining about the very low return of their saving, while demonizing the people who are willing to take more risk in return for a much higher reward. There are some people in this forum even  call BTC is a scam and therefore people who invest in BTC are idiots. For the people like this you often see from their posting demonstrate that they have very little understanding of what Blockchain, BTC, altcoins could do as, very little experience in taking high risk/high reward investment products. 

There are some people want to take the risk based on informed decision. Reasonably informed People will only take the risk when the reward is overwhelmingly high. To me along with some other people BTC, other major cryptos, high growth stock meet that criterion. But other people might have different opinion. 

IMO It is up to people to choose, and the forum like this is meant to be used as information exchange or sharing info. There are a lot of info I get from this forum, from other people.