Can My Daughter Leave Wales For Essential Training ?

Aranyani

Grumpy_chap said:

Dr_Crypto said:

People lived without running water or the internet or electricity too. It doesn't mean they aren't essential now. 
I'd say a microwave was pretty essential

I will concede running water and electricity are modern day essentials. 
Internet, as much of a modern-day distraction as essential
I cannot concur with you regarding the microwave.  We are not so stone-age as to have shunned the microwave, but the one in our house is probably used half-a-dozen times a year, if that.  Definitely not an essential.  

If you live in a bedsit with no kitchen then a microwave becomes much more essential than if you live in a nice house with an oven and a 4 ring hob.

thepurplepixie

MoneySeeker1 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

Wasn't the point to not hand an unfair trading advantage to the supermarkets when compared to "independent" traders who have been directed to close.
It appears to be where that line is drawn that is the debatable point

A bit pointless when people can just order anything they want online though. 

It seems to be based on a misconception that people will wait to buy the non-essential item, and as you say, they won't. All it will do is move even more business online, which is the last thing shops need.

Quite - I know I "could" have managed without a replacement for a breadbaking tin that "gave up the ghost" on me - but ordered/already received from Amazon. I could have waited till the bookshops were open again to buy a Bible I decided I'd better get again (years after chucking out last one - but I want to read the Book of Revelations and compare/contrast to 2020 right now) and that's already come through from Amazon.

Today's incident - smashed mug - I could wait a week or two - but I will be trying to take one off the shelf to buy next time I'm in Tesco (even if I have to break through cellophane to do so).

So - no people aren't going to wait....

Have you only got one mug?  I could break half a dozen and it still wouldn't be urgent. 

thepurplepixie

310 deaths today, we need to do something.

MattMattMattUK

thepurplepixie said:

310 deaths today, we need to do something.

Accept that whilst that is sad, approximately 1,450 people die in the UK every day on average and many of those dying of COVID would be dying of something else if it was not COVID that finished them off. Meanwhile suicides are rising, preventable deaths from cancers, heart disease, septecemia and many other conditions are rising at a considerable pace. Nearly everyone's quality of life has fallen, in some cases dramatically, with the future holding huge mental health issues for a significant number of the population. Unemployment is rising, defaults are rising, taxes will have to rise and government spending will have to be cut long term. 

It is not a one dimensional model, where people either die of COVID or live forever in blissful happiness, we need to take a holistic approach, rather than this incredibly narrow approach we are currently taking and we must resist the further narrowing that the hardcore lockdown idiots are pushing for. 

Aranyani

MattMattMattUK said:

thepurplepixie said:

310 deaths today, we need to do something.

Accept that whilst that is sad, approximately 1,450 people die in the UK every day on average and many of those dying of COVID would be dying of something else if it was not COVID that finished them off. 

Except that's just not true.  Lots of the people dying could easily have had years left if they hadn't caught this, most of them weren't at deaths door already.  

If you were told you could choose between dying of Covid next week or of something else in 2, 5, 10 or 20 years which would you choose?

Please also give a thought to NHS staff and care staff who are going into this second wave running on empty without even the support from the public that kept morale up last time. 

Dr_Crypto

Nobody knows how long those patients would have lived. In my area the average age of death for covid patients was 82. In all likelihood those patients wouldn’t have lived that much long. The joke amongst some this is that that nobody is dying of old age this year! 
There is also a somewhat philosophical question of a death from covid vs a death with covid. 

Grumpy_chap

I don't in any way wish to demean the COVID death figures, but the news reports that "died from COVID" is "death from any cause within 28 days following a COVID-positive diagnosis" and I understand the "within 28 days" was not originally there.  
Does that mean that a COVID-positive diagnosis on 1st October, but knocked down by a bus at the end of this week is still a COVID death?

Dr_Crypto

Yes it does. I think it was originally longer than 28 days but I can’t remember exactly. 

Aranyani

Dr_Crypto said:

Nobody knows how long those patients would have lived. In my area the average age of death for covid patients was 82. In all likelihood those patients wouldn’t have lived that much long. 

How can you know based on just age?  All my grandparents have lived years past that, and I just saw an article on the news about a 90 year old golfer in rude health, certainly not ready to drop dead.   

Aranyani

Grumpy_chap said:

I don't in any way wish to demean the COVID death figures, but the news reports that "died from COVID" is "death from any cause within 28 days following a COVID-positive diagnosis" and I understand the "within 28 days" was not originally there.  
Does that mean that a COVID-positive diagnosis on 1st October, but knocked down by a bus at the end of this week is still a COVID death?

Its actually very rare to be killed by a bus though.