Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN

alfiemorris

Thank you Redx. One of the Retailers was approached to ask when the Free hours were amended. Earlier this year apparently and apart from that, they couldn't be of any help regards the PCN. To be honest sufficient grounds for appealing it are not clear? the signage is there and it wasn't regarded. Perhaps you could offer some advice in this particular matter?The idea that the charge of £60 in the first instance is far to high for 23 minutes overstay is out of proportion. 

Redx

No chance with that argument , the Barry Beavis case 5 years ago killed that argument

We have already told you what the main defence is for a keeper , the law !! POFA 2012

You have already been told what to say , and what not to say !!

alfiemorris

I see you've lost patience with me? Understandable, you obviously know far more than I? How can you expect folk to understand. "If in doubt, please ask" Sorry to have troubled you.  

D_P_Dance

How can you expect folk to understand. 

Why not?  It is not rosket science.

Redx

Just do what we tell you for now , don't think you can come up with something new that nobody has thought of or tried before , you asked for advice from people who know , just accept it !!

As keeper , the law protects you , the driver was effectively bang to rights with only a T K O on some issue of other , like no landowner authority or the signage etc

It's like on TV where the driver commits offences , but they have to identify them and have proof , within the law , so when caught they "have the right to remain silent , anything they do say may be given in evidence !!" The idiots who blab get convicted

Just do as we say for now , it will all come out in the wash

Fruitcake

We haven't lost patience. Everyone here has a different posting style. We get about a hundred requests per day so some posters will post short, sharp comments before moving on to help another poster. Other regulars might choose to stay with one or two threads, spending much more time with them. 

You have been advised what to do. Make the initial appeal using the template in blue text from the first post of the NEWBIES, amended as suggested by Coupon-mad.
If you failed to do what has been advised, or haven't read up on the subject, you shouldn't be surprised if you get some sharp comments.

If/when it is rejected then you make a second stage appeal to PoPLA, again as per the advice in the NEWBIES. You should win at this stage because CEL do not issue PoFA compliant PCNs, which means a keeper cannot be held liable for the charge, but a driver can, which is why you have been told not to reveal the driver's identity.

As for the reduction in permitted parking time, I suggest you contact the council planning department to find out what they originally approved when planning permission was originally granted for the site. It is quite common for parking scammers to arbitrarily reduce this in breach of the original planning order. If you find this has happened, then complain to the BPA, the local council, and your MP.

Umkomaas

alfiemorris said:

I see you've lost patience with me? Understandable, you obviously know far more than I? How can you expect folk to understand. "If in doubt, please ask" Sorry to have troubled you.  

That's rather harsh, thrown at someone who has voluntarily provided his time and offered you advice to help you through your problem.  We aren't paid to be here, we are not civil servants, required to assist the public!  We deal with up to 100 different (and often complex legal) cases every single day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. In order to do this we have to provide rather truncated, shorthand bits of advice, otherwise there'd be dozens of traumatised motorists left utterly stranded, with no one supporting them because regulars are too busy providing sweet tea and sympathy to those who are ahead in the queue, demanding more and more personal attention. 

Do you realise there are many fewer than a dozen contributors who regularly and consistently post here every day?

MistyZ

alfiemorris said:

To be honest sufficient grounds for appealing it are not clear? 

You win or lose on technicalities in this 'game'.  And as others have pointed out, CEL PCNs do not comply with PoFA (the Protection of Freedoms Act).  So that's one technicality that is already in the Registered Keeper's favour.   

It's best if you understand the process but the regulars who have replied to you really know their stuff, so even if you don't quite get it all yet, just do what they say.  Be nice to 'em, they're just volunteer members and are seriously overworked helping so many people.  

Good luck, fingers crossed for you.

alfiemorris

Ok. Thanks to all who have posted at 7.47pm. I apologise. I didn't want to come across as rude or harsh. First of all, I am not the Keeper, other half is. I'm named driver. Not sure if this changes anything? I'll prepare to send my appeal in as prescribed and see what happens. Fruitcake helped by saying:              If/when it is rejected then you make a second stage appeal to PoPLA, again as per the advice in the NEWBIES. You should win at this stage because CEL do not issue PoFA compliant PCNs, which means a keeper cannot be held liable for the charge, but a driver can, which is why you have been told not to reveal the driver's identity.. : 

Redx

You cannot appeal , it's not in your name !!

The keeper appeals as keeper , you can assist but it's all done in the keepers name , Keepers address , Keepers email (setup a free Gmail account if you do not want the real one given out)

The driver does not appeal !! Not as driver !! That would be foolish in this case

So you are secretary assistant only , capiche ?