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Received a ticket despite displaying valid permit

I am also unable to see the PCN's evidence as website states 'Please please try later', which could be a system or timing issue but was issued Saturday afternoon.  The reason I want to see the evidence is that I have my own photos showing the permit was displayed. However it was on the dashboard in a recess so I would imagine the 'warden' only saw the permit when he or she got close enough to stick the ticket on the windscreen, and proceeded to do so as they'd already processed it. As it is a visitor permit there is no requirement per the terms on the rear to affix to the windscreen.

Reason stated on the ticket is 'NO PERMIT'

This is outside my flat. I am currently selling my old car, visitor permit does not display reg and nothing in the terms to suggest maximum usage period. There is currently an abandoned vehicle displaying one which has never been ticketed. Permit and ticket issued by UK Car Park Management.
I have not contacted them yet.

Obviously I will submit my images (PPC use a different web address for appeals than for payments) but is there much weight to the lack of their own images at the time of appeal i.e. now (I presume they will rectify as soon as the get my appeal through) and anything else I should include in the appeal? I have taken my own screenshot their website and error message. 

Wording on ticket:

"PARKING CHARGE NOTICE

PAYMENT DETAILS

See overleaf for payment methods. Pay by Telephone 24hrs 0345 463 4040 or pay online at www.paymyticket.co.uk. You are advised to send postal payments via recorded delivery. Cheques and postal orders should be made payable to UK Car Park Management Ltd. All postal payments must be accompanied by the PCN number, Vehicle Registration Number and the payment slip at the bottom of this notice. Payments received which are not accompanied by this information will be cashed but the creditor will be unable to allocate the payment to the correct PCN The Parking Charge Notice will therefore remain unpaid and enforcement action will be taken. This will result in additional costs being incurred.

LATE PAYMENTS

Failure to pay this charge may result in enforcement action which could include County Court proceedings and which may incur additional costs. This parking charge has been lawfully issued and the collection procedure will be processed in accordance with the administration of justice act 1970.

APPEALS

If you wish to dispute liability for this Parking Charge then you may appeal in writing to the creditor named above. Appeals must be received within 21 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given. You must provide your full name and address, the vehicle registration number and the Parking Reference at the top

of this Notice and your full reasons for contesting liability otherwise your appeal will not be processed. Appeal decisions should be provided within 28 days. In the event that your appeal is

unsuccessful then we will provide you with the appropriate details enabling you to lodge an appeal to the Independent Appeals Service. Details of the appeals procedure can be found at www.theiAS.org. If you do appeal and do not hear from us within 28 days then please contact us, do not assume that your appeal has been successful.

APPEAL TELEPHONE ENQUIRIES

Due to legal procedures, it is difficult for UK Car Park Management Ltd to submit verbal evidence before the court. We therefore regret that we are unable to deal with telephone enquiries with regard to the issue of this Parking Charge Notice.

PCN ENQUIRIES

INFORMATION

Please note all phone calls are monitored and recorded for security and training

purposes.

COMPLAINTS

Please note: If you wish to challenge the validity of this charge then you must use the appeals procedure detailed above. Other issues can be dealt with under the complaints procedure. If you wish to complain, you MUST complain to us directly in the first instance by writing to us at Complaints Department PO Box 3114 Lancing

BN15 5BR. If you are not satisfied with our response then you may refer your complaint to the IPC. Further details can be found at www.thelPČ.info. REGISTERED KEEPER DETAILS AND DATA PROCESSING

In the event that payment is not made in full within 28 days of issue of this PCN, the vehicle keeper details may be requested from DVLA and a notice may be sent to the registered keeper. Where enforcement action is necessary, further charges may be incurred that will be added to the value of the PCN. Enforcement action may include County Court proceedings. Non-payment of County Court Judgments may adversely affect your credit rating. We comply with the DVLA requirements on data release and only retain/process information for the purposes for which it was obtained and in accordance with the Data Protection Act 2018. Where recovery action is necessary, data may be shared for that purpose with third party agencies. Please see full privacy notice at: (www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/privacy).

ADVICE NOTE

Payment of this charge may be pursued by the operator

Wording on signs

"PARKING CONDITIONS

Private Property | Terms & Conditions

A VALID UK CPM PERMIT MUST BE CLEARLY DISPLAYED IN THE FRONT WINDSCREEN AT ALL TIMES.

Vehicles displaying bay or area allocated permits must park in the corresponding bay or area

YOU MUST PARK WHOLLY WITHIN A MARKED BAY. NO PARKING ON ROADWAYS I YELLOW LINES I PAVED HATCHED OR LANDSCAPED AREAS

IF UNSURE PLEASE SEEK FURTHER ADVICE FROM CPM OR REFRAIN FROM PARKING

By entering or remaining on this land you agree to abide by all of the Terms and Conditions Breach of ANY term or condition will result in the driver being liable for a

Parking Charge of £100

Parking charges are to be paid within 28 days Additional parking charges apply for each 24 hour period or part thereof, that the vehicle remains in breach or if it returns at any time Terms and Conditions apply 24 hours a day, all year round Where a parking charge becomes due an application may be made to the DVLA for the keeper's details. Non-payment will result in additional charges which will be added to the value of the charge and for which the driver will be liable on an indemnity basis. Automatic Number Plate recognition may be in use. Images may be captured and retained for enforcement purposes. We are not liable for any loss or damage howsoever caused to any person or property whilst on this site save under any statutory exceptions Managed by UK Car

Park Management Ltd, PO BOX 3114 Lancing BN15 5BR Registered in England and Wales 07383860"

Thanks in advance
«13456789

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,484 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 October 2020 at 9:13AM
    What does your lease/AST say about parking, permits, PCNs, and court? This will have primacy of contract over anything a third party scammers says.

    What happened when you complained to the landowner and managing agent if there is one? Remind them that they are responsible for the action of their agents.

    I guarantee the parking weasel will have seen the permit but deliberately took pictures from angles that would make it appear as if it wasn't there.

    Send the ready made appeal template in blue text from the first post of the NEWBIES if your complaints don't work.

    Get pics of the site and signage, and take pictures of the car with the permit displayed from the angles the parking scammer used as well as other views where the permit could easily be seen.

    Complain to the IPC and DVLA that this looks like a deliberate attempt to obtain money by deception because a permit WAS displayed, but the parking weasel appears to have deliberately taken pictures from strange angles to make it appear as though there was no permit in place.

    When are you moving? Nobody should ever live where the property is infested by unregulated parking scammers. 
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • wall1
    wall1 Posts: 46 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    I checked the lease and it simply refers to not using a garage or carport for any other purpose than parking and the prohibition of commercial vehicles and the right to "use the parking space if any allocated for the time being to the Premises the allocated at the time herof being that shown marked on the plan with the number corresponding to the Plot number of the Premises"

    Landowner have told me I have to go through the PCC first despite my reminding them that they are the ones who employed the contractor.
  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,592 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper

    Have you read this?


    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.htmlantsot


    What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.


    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, and an independent appeals service will be set up,


    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • wall1
    wall1 Posts: 46 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    I'm guessing the contents of my initial appeal to PPC will be irrelevant as it will be rejected anyway, so I will just appeal with my own photos and suggesting they are restricting my access to their evidence and ability to pay online as appears they have not loaded my ticket on to their system, and that the detailed stuff goes to POPLA, or do I need to build the biggest case now?
  • wall1
    wall1 Posts: 46 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    They've now uploaded the photos incredibly omitting centre of the dash where the permit was displayed and zooming in to the same place on the right.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,484 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 October 2020 at 9:31AM
    UKCPM are IPC members so PoPLA is not available, only the kangaroo court that is the IAS.

    You are right that your initial appeal will be rejected so it doesn't matter what you put in it. Whilst we normally tell people not to identify the driver in most cases, for a residential case it is usually better to do so because the driver can refer to my parking space, or my lease etcetera.

    I wouldn't put anything in the appeal about not being able to pay as that could be considered as an admission of guilt. If you can't see the charge in a few days time then complain to the scammers and IPC. This may have been a self ticketing operation (one of your neighbours) and the ticket hasn't been processed yet back at the scammers HQ. Alternatively it could be an IT problem, or the parking weasel hasn't got back to base to upload the scamvoice. 

    First however, please answer the questions you have been asked.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • wall1
    wall1 Posts: 46 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    D_P_Dance said:

    Have you read this?

    PARKING PRANKSTER


    Seems he's taken that bit down
  • wall1
    wall1 Posts: 46 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Fruitcake said:
    UKCPM are IPC members so PoPLA is not available, only the kangaroo court that is the IAS.

    You are right that your initial appeal will be rejected so it doesn't matter what you put in it. Whilst we normally tell people not to identify the driver in most cases, for a residential case it is usually better to do so because the driver can refer to my parking space, or my lease etcetera.

    I wouldn't put anything in the appeal about not being able to pay as that could be considered as an admission of guilt. If you can't see the charge in a few days time then complain to the scammers and IPC. This may have been a self ticketing operation (one of your neighbours) and the ticket hasn't been processed yet back at the scammers HQ. Alternatively it could be an IT problem, or the parking weasel hasn't got back to base to upload the scamvoice. 

    First however, please answer the questions you have been asked.
    Sorry, I've been adding updates as can't edit my post.
    Seems no joy on lease terms and as only a couple of references to parking I've added above and landowner say appeal first.
    What else do you need to know?
  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,592 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    No joy on lease? Seems like there was a right to park there without a permit...
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