New face covering measures

Takmon

sweetgirl2015 said:

JamoLew said:

well thats what the 1st national lockdown almost covered -- 

I hear you, but I dont necessary agree, because like I was saying earlier, the first lockdown was a shambles. My boyfriend couldn't work from home as his job requires him to be physically there, but not just him all his colleagues too, all sharing the same building and facilities. And I'm pretty sure his situation wasen't rare. So how could we contain a virus like that? Its been profit over life. 
Whereas we been together for four years, yet had to stop seeing each other or move in together, the later being impossible.
Just so many things this year has been so not making sense like that which is why we will just have to live with it as someone rightly said.

This kind of thinking is the problem that the virus is spreading so much because lots of people think the same way as you and somehow they can't seem to understand the difference.

When your boyfriend went to work he should be keeping a distance from others as much as possible, wearing masks or having barriers if they have to work close together, the workplace should have door/windows/extractor fans to ensure adequate ventilation etc. Which is all pretty reasonable. 

But when you and your boyfriend are together you are likely to have no ventilation cuddled up close together with lots of physical contact which makes the virus very easy to spread between you. 

So basically the rules are too allow the economy to keep going but also to prevent situations where people are in close contact with loved ones where it is far more likely to spread.

elsien

Anyone suggesting we all stockpile a months worth of food clearly has never been unfortunate enough to have to live off JSA/UC. Or to live in an HMO with a shared fridge and limited freezer space. Or be one of the people housed in emergency B&B accommodation. 
And would appear to have conveniently forgotten what happened when people started stockpiling in March. 

JamoLew

Dymphna60 said:

@JamLew are more than 99% of the population really really really suffering terrible terrible things that some people’s lives should be thrown away without a thought ? 

financially,health wise,  the economy, job losses, paying for all this - YES absolutely which will have lasting social problems for years to come for every single man,woman and child (and their children probably) in the country/world
There are more people dying every day from not receiving adequate heath care than from Covid - I am seing it every single day and have been for months

Niv

sweetgirl2015 said:

JamoLew said:

sweetgirl2015 said:

I think this virus hasent gone away from the fact of sketchy rules which we have had to endure since March. 
How can it be right I can't see my nearest and dearest which is of course my boyfriend of 4 years. Yet he can go to a factory and work with over 20 other colleagues, all sharing the same building and canteen.
At this rate its never going away because the government don't live in a real world. 

They do live in the real world though, that's the problem.
They have to balance the economy and the welfare of the population (and the lack of respect for guidance and the law)
How would you suggest we get rid of it ?

Well since you asked heres my theory. And I know this will sound drastic, unmanagable, even a pipe dream, but ifwe stocked up for a months worth of food, which isn't outragious as I know lots of people who do a monthly shop, then we all hibernate for 3 weeks obviously with government instructions, and in theory it will kill off all transmission of the virus as it only stays alive on an infected person for 11 days apparently.
Compare that to the disruption and death we have encountered this year already my theory doesnt seem too much of a sacrifice. 

The whole world would have to do it at the same time for it to have any lasting effect. You think that's likely?

sweetgirl2015

Takmon said:

sweetgirl2015 said:

JamoLew said:

well thats what the 1st national lockdown almost covered -- 

I hear you, but I dont necessary agree, because like I was saying earlier, the first lockdown was a shambles. My boyfriend couldn't work from home as his job requires him to be physically there, but not just him all his colleagues too, all sharing the same building and facilities. And I'm pretty sure his situation wasen't rare. So how could we contain a virus like that? Its been profit over life. 
Whereas we been together for four years, yet had to stop seeing each other or move in together, the later being impossible.
Just so many things this year has been so not making sense like that which is why we will just have to live with it as someone rightly said.

This kind of thinking is the problem that the virus is spreading so much because lots of people think the same way as you and somehow they can't seem to understand the difference.

When your boyfriend went to work he should be keeping a distance from others as much as possible, wearing masks or having barriers if they have to work close together, the workplace should have door/windows/extractor fans to ensure adequate ventilation etc. Which is all pretty reasonable. 

But when you and your boyfriend are together you are likely to have no ventilation cuddled up close together with lots of physical contact which makes the virus very easy to spread between you. 

So basically the rules are too allow the economy to keep going but also to prevent situations where people are in close contact with loved ones where it is far more likely to spread.

But my boyfriend said the way the factory is set up even long before covid its inpossible to maintain the 2 metre rule as they have to work in close proximity to each other passing items to each other, and lets not forget it was before masks became mandatory as at first they didnt think masks would stop transmission of the virus. So everyone in that particular factory felt vunerable about catching the virus, some stayed at home with stress, but they were unpaid. And they shared the same canteen for meals as it was not a manageable thing to stagger break times at this factory. Everyone cramned into the canteen together even in lockdown. This is why I call the first lockdown a shambles. 
It was nothing short of a miracle that no one including my boyfriend caught the virus, because if one did they all would have, and took it home to loved ones etc. Not me because we chose to live apart in our own properties. 
So you see what I mean its very often life vs industry. 

Dymphna60

Sorry haven’t worked out how to quote on phone . 

Yes people are suffering, many hugely and our society will be changed by this pandemic and there will probably be others to come but @JamLew and others that say we should make no concessions to the vulnerable, what do we do about those that need hospitalisation? 

I am genuinely interested particularly if you work in health or social care ? 

Does a Covid diagnosis mean an automatic refusal of care but seasonal flu allow you a bed ? 

Should we stop all treatment that makes people at high risk if they catch Covid ? Does it make sense to put resources into say chemotherapy if the very treatment is going to make them at risk of catching Covid and that comes with a no treatment policy? 

Can we really just “ crack on” business as usual and leave people to die with no care until only the strong survive ? 

Who makes the decision? Are you making it ? 

If Covid stuck us down and bang , dead or survived in a day it would be a whole other ballgame wouldn’t it . 

I don’t have an answer, I am a normal person. I want my children to have jobs , like many people my age I struggled for work in my youth with huge queues every day signing on , been poor had to chose between putting on the fire or food  and I don’t want that for anyone ( I know it is a horrible reality for many ) . 

But I can’t see how we get over the what to do right now if Covid is left unchecked and huge numbers are struck down at one with a horrible, painful and prolonged disease . 

If someone has an answer I hope they put their hand up soon . 

I know this is not an appropriate post and risks a ban 

RyanHello

Most people have no concept of what is coming. I do, it won't be pretty. Many simply will not accept that our economic and social cohesion is about to fall down like a pack of dominoes and they have supported the actions bringing this on.

The advocates of face masks and social distancing will be the first to blame the government when the brown stuff hits the fan.
There's been thousands upon thousands of businesses who are going under just because of government policy.

It annoys me when a lot of people cannot see what this gov is doing to this country.
Saving 0.28% of people by destroying the economy, livelihoods and increasing excess deaths of other causes is not worth it. Nothing "selfish" about it.

Time for everyone who still supports lockdowns to have a real good think... 

JamoLew

I work in cancer care and the effects are devastating at the moment with patients not receiving the proper care and treatment that they deserve. The knock on effects will be 10,000s of extra deaths - most probably far in excess of any Covid deaths.
Sensible precautions like distancing and masks are easy and have minimal social impact -- the rest , no thanks

Dymphna60

Thanks @ JamoLew . 

I absolutely agree with you that the health impacts on people with conditions like cancer are devastating , both in a general way and in having an adult child who is still in the close monitoring group who’s follow ups are cancelled/delayed. Unfortunately has bad late side effects from his chemotherapy. 

Covid brings with it smack into our faces that not everyone that could be saved is saved , that this will never be possible . 

I am recently and thankfully retired from 40 years in healthcare. 

You aren’t really saying crack on as normal then though are you ? As you say a degree of social distancing, mask wearing a little bit of pain for everyone is not a big ask . 

Most people are reasonable even old folk like me .  That people get vital care they need means that  I am not round folks houses gossiping over tea and cake risking passing on / catching Covid and taking up resources that are needed elsewhere. 

So I will suck up my loneliness  , put my love of train travel on hold . 

Could those that I see drunkenly hugging strangers for a selfie in the street not just retrain themselves a little too ? 

I will shut up now . 

RyanHello

I'm wondering what the govs aim actually is? This chart I've shared clearly shows the virus is NOT as bad as first thought.
Are they aiming for zero covid? It's not going to happen. If we locked down from the end of March there were still thousands upon thousands of cases.

How long before they say "we have to live with it?" ... I predict the end of the year.