Another PPC scam

x2y2

Hi All

Another Newbie to MSE Forum, and looking for help.

Another PPC scam. My case very similar to a post by another forumite in May 2018. Have read loads of stuff around it. Bit apprehensive on giving out too many details. Ipad hidden from view, and misleading sign in venue. Misleading signs in car park, and one T&C’s hidden by overgrown tree. BPA informed.

Got a PCN through post towards end of 2019, appealed – no joy. Appealed to POPLA (before having read forums) – rejected. Been to and fro with PPC, but I think now I will get court letter as have had a final demand. Should I just wait and see what happens or are there other things that i could actively do?

nosferatu1001

No idea, given we dont know what PPC, what the cirucmstances were, what car park it is, and what they allege happened.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Ralph-y

as above if we don't get more details then all we can say is read the newbies thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou

Ralph

BrownTrout

Shall I get out the crystal ball

Coupon-mad

You didn't mention your complaint to the landowner, that MUST BE TRIED NOW but should have been done before POPLA was even started. Also which PPC is it (I guess ParkingEye or CEL)?

MistyZ

So this was a hidden iPad?  Were there obvious signs about entering registration number in venue?

Completely agree with need to complain to landowner - vigorously, politely, confidently - ASAP.  

But unless you get instant satisfaction from the landowner, do your prep in case this goes to court.  For example, if it is possible to get back to the venue and get photographs of obscured signage, 'discrete' placing of iPad, lack of signs within venue etc.  then do so as soon as is possible.  You may be able to get photos of the poor signage in the car park from Streetview i.e. screenshots.  Don't wait any longer than you have to in case things do improve.  

One thing I learnt from the last long-running case of this kind on here is that Lord Denning's Red Hand Rule may be a major point to use in your defence if this goes to court & therefore you require evidence that it was not fulfilled.  

x2y2

Thank you all for the prompt replies.

For clarification the PPC is Premier Park Ltd (PP). I had parked in a pub car park, and with looking for parking spot and parking, PCN recorded just over 30 mins. Condition for parking in pub car park,  PPC say is that I should have entered Registration mark into ipad. However, no sign anywhere internally or externally which EXPLICITLY states “Enter Registration mark into iPad/screen”. But vaguer ‘register your car at bar’. At the time, informed the bar-girl that I had parked in the car park, but she did not point me in the direction of the ipad nor tell me that that was required action. (Unclear Terms).

I have sent video footage to PP of bar with non-visible ipad, and also a T&C sign partially hidden by a tree. Their response was that I have ‘sympathetically choreographed’ the images. Wrote to BPA (Feb 2020) re the hidden T&C sign, and PP not fulfilling CoP 19.3 “You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle.”  As of 1 June 2020 no remedial work has taken place, despite BPA requesting PP in Feb 2020. (hence no contract ?)

Have written to MP.

Have emailed landowner, who may not be looking at his emails, as establishment currently closed.

Umkomaas

Have you got clear photos of the signage (the purported contract between the PPC and you) especially clear enough to read all the wording? Most court cases sees signage being one of the main subject areas receiving the Judge's attention. 

x2y2

Yes, the PPC have sent me their stock images, and none of them explicitly state “ enter vehicle registration  into an iPad or screen”. One sign states “ have your registration to hand”; which is not requiring a motorist to enter their VRM

Umkomaas

I was actually thinking photos you've taken yourself, but if the PPC themselves can't evidence signage sufficiently clear on what is expected, then that could be gold dust for you.  

As I advised another poster a few minutes ago, check out the legal term 'Contra Proferentem' - could be very helpful.