**NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou!

Coupon-mad

WELCOME!

HOW TO BEAT A PRIVATE PCN: BY APPEAL, COMPLAINT, OR DEFENCE.

BEFORE YOU USE THE FORUM, IF YOU ARE NOT SURE HOW TO USE IT, CLICK HERE Forum Introduction Guide

AND READ THESE; YOU'LL SOON BE UP TO SPEED AND MAY FIND YOUR ANSWER BY SEARCHING FOR SIMILAR POSTS:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/faqs/how-do-i-ask-a-question-on-the-forum/

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_vb3_board_usage


DO NOT USE YOUR REAL NAME AS YOUR USERNAME IF YOU POST A THREAD:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5532696


FAQS FIRST. NO THREAD IS NEEDED IF YOUR QUESTIONS ARE:

Q - ''I have read the NEWBIES thread but cannot find anything specific to my case...my case is different''.

A - NO IT ISN'T. YOU DO NOT NEED SPECIFICS. FORGET THE DETAIL, MOST CASES ARE ALL THE SAME.

Q - ''Is this info up to date, because this thread was started in 2013?''

A - YES, IT IS. SEE THE DATE LAST EDITED (RECENTLY!) AS SHOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST.

Q - ''My vehicle is lease/hired/company car and I'm not the registered keeper. Is the advice different?''

A - YES, PLEASE SEE THE SECTION ABOUT LEASE/HIRE/COMPANY CARS AT THE FOOT OF THIS POST*

Q - ''My PCN is from a Council (e.g. bus lane, box junction or parking PENALTY) so does this thread apply?''

A - NO, BUT THEY CAN BE APPEALED. Get advice on the Free Traffic Advice forum https://www.ftla.uk/ as they specialise in council and police motoring matters, whereas we specialise in private parking issues on this forum.

Q - ''I don't understand any of your acronyms, this is too complicated!''

A - THE USUAL ACRONYMS ARE EXPLAINED LOWER DOWN THIS THREAD, SEPARATELY, IN POST #5. APPEALING IS NOT COMPLICATED, YOUR APPEAL IS ALREADY WRITTEN FOR YOU BELOW FOR YOU TO COPY & PASTE INTO THE PPC's ONLINE APPEAL PAGE.

Q - ''My PCN says the 'fine' will go up after 14 days, so why are you suggesting I wait before appealing?''

A - FORGET THE '14 DAYS JITTERS'. THE 'DISCOUNT' IS A BRIBE NOT TO APPEAL.

Q - ''My PCN is from an IPC member, should I really not try IAS, and why not?''

A - Next to no chance. Sad to say but the IAS is widely considered a kangaroo court, Normal appeal facts like 'I was not the driver, no keeper liability' don't cut it with the IAS and losing that stage will make most posters feel more worried.

DON'T TRY IAS & PLEASE DON'T POST ASKING FOR YOUR 'NEXT STEP'. NONE, TILL COURT.

Q - ''My PCN is from UKCPM or UKCPS (insert IPC firm here) and the signs say they are both BPA & IPC members?''

A - THEY ARE NOT. SPARE OUR TIME ON THIS BUSY FORUM. NO MORE THREADS LIKE THIS!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5784929

Q - ''My windscreen Notice is a 'PENALTY' from a Railway car park, issued by a private firm (SABA), what do I do?''

The only thing to do differently with SABA RAILWAY PENALTY (specifically only that type) is to WAIT for the first letter to arrive (as long as it's your own vehicle, not leased/hired - if it is you must respond yourself quickly). These fake penalties go nowhere, and 'time out' after just 6 months. There is no POPLA offered and no fair appeal; nothing makes them cancel. For a summary about Railway penalties, written by a newbie who did her research click here and just search the forum for SABA for more like this: here.

Q - ''I'm in Scotland/NI, so is the advice different?''

YES. IF THE EVENT TOOK PLACE IN SCOTLAND OR NORTHERN IRELAND, WE SUGGEST YOU DO (ALWAYS!) COMPLAIN TO STORE MANAGEMENT IF YOUR PCN IS FROM A RETAIL PARK, AND SEND THE USUAL TEMPLATE APPEAL FOR YOUR CASE, NOT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING. HOWEVER, DO NOT TRY POPLA BECAUSE POPLA (IN A CASE THAT TOOK PLACE OUTSIDE ENGLAND/WALE) WILL REQUIRE YOU TO STATE IF YOU WERE DRIVING OR NOT, AND THAT IS THE ONE THING NOT TO DISCLOSE.

Q - ''I am getting debt collector letters! They're really scary, the 'fine' has gone up, what do I do?''

A - If this is the VERY FIRST letter from a debt collector like PCS, appeal that Notice as if it was the 'Notice to Keeper'. IF YOU MISSED APPEAL AND ARE GETTING DEBT LETTERS - DO NOTHING! DO NOT RING THE DEBT COLLECTOR! See post #4 below.

Q - ''I have a (non-debt collector) Letter Before County Court Claim (LBCCC), or a Court Claim, or a CCJ that I have just discovered - is it too late to beat this - should I now pay?''

A - IT IS NOT TOO LATE. WE WIN 99% OF WELL-DEFENDED COURT CLAIMS! CERTAINLY DON'T RUSH TO PAY OFF A CCJ, WHICH OFTEN DOES NOT REMOVE IT. SEEK OUR ADVICE FIRST. SEE POST #2 BELOW.

Q - ''Why isn't this sort of rip-off scam illegal? I thought these were unenforceable.''

A - Private charges are based on contract law and allege that the driver breached a contractual term (e.g. an implied promise, such as to display a permit or not to overstay a 2 hour free period). Such contracts can be enforceable in the county court, but are defendable (see post #2 all about small claim defences). Charges are not 'illegal' but this industry is skating on thin ice. These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint.



****************************


Action to be taken if you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, in this order:

1. ALL CASES, EVERYWHERE - COMPLAIN FIRST, ESPECIALLY OVER A RETAIL, HOTEL, OR HOSPITAL CAR PARK:

Always complain to the Retailer very quickly. This is 'Plan A' :

Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled! <<< CLICK

It can be easy and quick to get these cancelled by a landowner. If the charge was at a Hospital then immediately complain to PALS (Google it and find their local contact).


2. ONLY after exhausting the complaints option, then as Plan B, the keeper appeals.

Appealing a private PCN

Windscreen ticket from a BPA member? = STOP - wait and research before appealing!! If it was a windscreen 'PCN' (not postal, not an IPC member and not a SABA Railway 'penalty' - see Q&A above) wait 3 weeks.

In the case of CURRENT (NON-DVLA-BANNED) BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION (BPA) AOS MEMBERS ONLY, appeal online or by email at day 25 or 26 after a windscreen PCN but as the KEEPER, not driver, using the ''one size fits all'' blue appeal template below.

Q - ''But I want to appeal now! Why wait till day 26 before appealing a BPA member windscreen PCN?''

A - To tie them up in the appeals process at a time when they should also be posting a Notice to Keeper (NTK). Many PPCs in the BPA omit any NTK when replying to an appeal and the very fact a PPC forgets to send you a NTK by day 56, gives you a winning point at POPLA. Don't forget this tactic, and use it at POPLA stage: having appealed on day 25 or 26 after a windscreen PCN, make sure you take note of whether any postal NTK is ever received in the following weeks. A rejection letter with POPLA code is not a 'NTK'.

You must include 'no keeper liability' at POPLA stage if you do NOT receive a NTK at all in that time, and you will win as long as you make the missing NTK clear to POPLA.


IPC members are different:

In the case of CURRENT IPC AOS MEMBERS ONLY, we now advise to WAIT for a Notice to Keeper to arrive and then challenge once as the KEEPER, not driver, using the template appeal, as shown below.

Q -''Why wait for the 'NTK' to arrive a month later, after finding an IPC member windscreen PCN?''

A: Because there has been shown to be no appeal worth trying really, you will get a rejection anyway, so you may as well leave it and see if they issue a NTK and let them apply to the DVLA (unless yours is a company or lease car of course, in which case you MUST appeal at windscreen PCN stage as stated at the end of this thread).

Postal PCN from a BPA or IPC member ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket):

A postal PCN or NTK might be headed up 'Reminder' or 'Charge Notice' or it may even be a letter from a debt collector - it is your Notice to Keeper, in effect, if it's the first letter to arrive. No need to wait, appeal online as registered keeper (or as ''hirer/lessee'' if that's the case, see * below re lease/hire cars).

This is why not to name the driver (thanks to The Slithy Tove for this explanation):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180



************************************************************************


TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING:



Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.


THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE, OR IN THE RELEVANT BOX ON THEIR APPEALS PAGE.

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

DON'T POST IT BY ROYAL MAIL UNLESS YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION ON THE PCN.

CERTAINLY NOT BY RECORDED DELIVERY - FORGET THAT! - ALWAYS USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE - OR EMAIL IF OFFERED AS AN OPTION ON THE NOTICE - BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP PROOF/ A SCREENSHOT. NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER APPEAL OPTION BUT POSTAL...BUT OF COURSE YOU PUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS!

You can (carefully!) add a little to the template above, 'in order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of...':

- the driver's receipts/bank transactions (or Hospital Appointment/Hotel booking, etc.) that day as 'they' were a genuine customer/patient, etc.

- If an occupant of the car is disabled or elderly/infirm, then the keeper can add that, without implying who was driving.

- A copy of the Blue Badge is a good idea to upload/attach but without saying who parked.



********************************************************

Want to dig deeper?
Check the compliance of your Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA.

See the images on this thread. Compare:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6483542/a-thread-of-pictures-of-2023-parking-firm-ntks/p1

Here's Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a 'windscreen ticket followed by a NTK', or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN only):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

If the NTK arrives late, this does not make the PCN 'void' but it means there is 'no keeper liability' possible.

If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.

Or, the NTK must arrive with you between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen PCN.

Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking, CP Plus and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable and you must you point that out to POPLA.



******************************************************


* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

With a company/leased or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket and cannot get it cancelled by the landowner (PLAN A above), appeal within 2 weeks, well before day 21 to hook the PPC in your direction to stop them getting the keeper's details from the DVLA.

You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay. If the hire/lease firm gets a postal PCN and names you as the hirer, that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case.

Here are examples of a successful appeal for company cars/lease/hire/rental cases, where the PPC has (pretty much ALWAYS!) failed to send the required documents to the hirer with the postal Notice:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703794

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69859059#Comment_69859059

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69767583#Comment_69767583


Thanks to Edna Basher for the template appeals above.

If the Notice has been sent to a lease firm and then they have named your own company (not an individual) and you (the Director or Fleet Dept) want to appeal as the company, here is Edna Basher's latest draft appeal for a Fleet Manager (hirer company) to use:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5881338/pcn-for-lease-car-vehicle

Worked the same day!

Coupon-mad

SMALL CLAIM?
IF YOU HAVE A THREAD, REPLY ON IT, DON'T START A NEW ONE.

Pre-action stage:
If you have a 'Letter of claim' or Letter Before Claim (LBC), a claim IS likely.

A 'real' LBC gives a 30 day deadline and reply forms. DO NOT use the 'reply forms'. You do not have to declare your finances!

PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE IS THE ADVICE TO RESPOND TO A LETTER OF / BEFORE CLAIM, THIS IS NOT WHAT TO DO IF YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A CLAIM FORM

(that's also easy - no CCJ risk asking as you act quickly - but actual Claims are dealt with lower down in this post).

If the parking firm is using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor and you have a LBC or LoC (a letter) then search the forum for the solicitor's email and reply robustly as follows:

DO NOT SEND A LETTER.

Here's a robust example, for a case where you weren't driving and it's 'non-POFA':
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80421536/#Comment_80421536

Here's a more generic one to the solicitor (or operator if they sent the LOC themselves):

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

----
You can briefly also state (ABOVE those two questions) your reasons for disputing the claim and/or state (if true) it was so long ago you have no idea what it's about and/or (if true) that you were not the driver and do not believe their client can hold the keeper liable.

This is how to word that last bit, for example a case at an Airport (this post is by a solicitor):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80564910/#Comment_80564910


PARKINGEYE are a little different
If you get a LBCCC direct from ParkingEye (not from DCBLegal on their behalf) email PEye's litigation team with facts / receipts / blue badge / proof of patronage, to try to resolve the dispute:

enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

Treat the ParkingEye email as your 'last gasp' chance to appeal. Alternatively, they'll accept you naming the driver & postal address (and should reissue the PCN and start again with the driver being allowed to appeal).


In EVERY case (not just P/Eye):

IT IS NEVER TOO LATE to complain to the Landowner or retailer, and LBC stage is a last chance. When faced with a polite but ''angry customer who will never return'' complaint many retailers cancel these.

DO NOT WRITE THAT YOU WISH TO 'APPEAL'. No, it's a complaint!
If it's a Hospital, urgently complain to PALS (Google it...).

What if your LBC-stage complaint to the landowner doesn't get the PCN cancelled?

You'll probably get a court claim (no worries - scam soon over, no risk) and we have a Template Defence that works - MOST CASES DO NOT EVEN MAKE IT TO A HEARING.

If you get a court claim, don't panic, c99% of defendants here, win!

You don't get a CCJ even if you lose, if you pay within 30 days of judgment, nothing stays on the register (credit record). No 'risk' as long as you don't miss court deadlines, you may as well defend and fight!

So, where to start dealing with a claim?

DON'T SCRAWL A 'DEFENCE' ON THE PAPERWORK. STOP!

Here is a guide to MCOL, how to acknowledge service ('AOS'):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0


THEN READ THIS TEMPLATE DEFENCE AND EDIT IT TO SUIT:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs/p1

Send your defence to:

ClaimResponses.CNBC@justice.gov.uk


Here are some cases which should help you with ideas as to what to put in as 'case specific facts' at #2 and #3 of the above linked template defence:

If your case is about YOUR OWN SPACE or parking in a residents' car park as a legit visitor, read THIS from the parking Prankster. Also consider a counter-claim and/or LBC to the site Managing Agent:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/residential-ticket-only-cancelled-after.html

Here's some wording to adapt & add into the FACTS section of the Template Defence, if your case is about a residential car park where you lived:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80232190/#Comment_80232190

...and one about a residential site with secure key fob access BUT THE STATEMENT OF TRUTH IS OLD - DO NOT USE THIS IN FULL! Again just grab good paragraphs from it and slot them into the FACTS paragraph 3 onwards, of the Template Defence itself:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74708527#Comment_74708527


Defence is NOT your only job, nor the only paperwork!

*********************************************

IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT YOU MUST DO AND BY WHEN!

The first 12 steps are set out in the Template Defence thread including the fact you can email your defence and your Directions Questionnaire so please don't ask about the early stage forms!

Here's a summary from bargepole of what happens when, what you MUST do in time, re the paperwork & deadlines:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5546325/court-claim-procedure-updated-october-2016/p1

There will be:
(a) Directions Questionnaire (N180) stage - an easy form - EMAIL IT as per the Template Defence thread first 12 steps, (not as advised by bargepole by post).

(b) Witness Statement & evidence stage.

(c) if they don't discontinue (VERY COMMON THAT THEY WILL - DCB LEGAL ALWAYS!), there will be a hearing at your local court. Might be remote.

2 or 3 months after filing your defence:

The CNBC will send you a DQ N180 form, that must be completed & returned to the claimant and the court, explained here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71763411#Comment_71763411

Yes, there are a couple of new Qs in the tedious N180 form; please DON'T post asking about how to answer them:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79250068#Comment_79250068

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80121512/#Comment_80121512

LETTERS ABOUT HEARINGS - WITNESS STATEMENT AND EVIDENCE TIME!
When you get a hearing date, THAT LETTER gives you on page two, the deadline by which YOU MUST file the evidence ('exhibits') and Witness Statement.

YOU are the witness. You MUST do a statement and it is not OK to rely only on your defence.

At witness statement stage (usually NOT LATER THAN 14 DAYS BEFORE YOUR HEARING!) don't forget to file the evidence you will rely upon. Can include:

(a) a copy of the Beavis case sign as a comparison to show how awful the small print sign was in yours case (see Google images - it's yellow and black)

(b) photos proving the scarce/illegible small print signs & a view showing the lack of entrance signs, etc. and maybe a video of how it looks from a car? Get a passenger to hold a camera or phone to prove the lack of signs in similar light conditions.

(c). If the Claim form did not specify the term breached, include the strike out orders shown here in a link to CEL v Chan and similar case 'strike out' Judgments from all over the English courts:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80812842/#Comment_80812842

...and use wording like this to refer to those exhibits - note that the lead case is CEL v Chan as it was heard in Appeal and is persuasive::
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80516020#Comment_80516020

(d) if you are defending as keeper, not driver, include a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA and also exhibit the transcripts of Excel v Smith and VCS v Edward (search the forum!).

(e) a copy of your lease or tenancy agreement if this is an 'own space' or 'block of flats' dispute where YOU have primacy of contract.

(f) other case transcripts that support your defence, e.g. if arguing that this is a residential space where the tenant/leaseholder has already been granted the right to park or unload, you need Jopson v HomeGuard (appeal) and PACE v Mr N, etc.
(g) the IPC or BPA Code of practice, where it supports your case (e.g. grace periods) but be sure to use the RIGHT version for the date of parking.

(h) Pay & Display ticket, if the driver paid. DON'T argue 'no loss'!

(i) paras 98, 193 and 198 from Parking Eye v Beavis copied & pasted onto a single sheet.


WITNESS STATEMENT - EASY STAGE - YOUR 'STORY' & EVIDENCE

This is a simple stage.It's your story & evidence.

Search for recent Witness Statements for how to word them. Very easy: copy & adapt, except there are TWO trade bodies (the BPA and IPC) so don't copy stuff about the wrong Code of Practice.

Also attach a Costs Assessment (just an A4 page) if you are taking a day's leave from work, or have specifically incurred other costs (like a £303 set aside fee if you had a CCJ hearing where the Judge said 'costs reserved') or childcare or travel to the hearing. Bring receipts, wage slips, proof of costs.

If the PPC DISCONTINUES shortly before the hearing, try writing to the court and asking for your assessed costs. Here's how @bluetoffee1878 did it - but it's rare to get this awarded without a hearing:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...88#post72966188


THE HEARING
It's a meeting - think of it as the ultimate face to face 'appeal'. Get there half an hour early to get through security & sign in with the Usher.

DO NOT agree to talk in a side room with the Claimant's rep, they are trying to scare you into settling the claim outside the Judge's room...nope.

Go in confidently and wish the Judge a Good Morning/Afternoon. Call the Judge 'Sir' or 'Madam' or (this is the correct word) 'Judge'.

Search the forum for 'ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST' and read about hearings and what happened in winning cases.

Most Judges are friendly; they listen and know about PPC 'scams'. Take a crib sheet with you; bullet points to help you focus, plus printed versions of both sets of WS and evidence, so you can follow what is said.

DONT'T FORGET TO ASK FOR YOUR COSTS AT THE END BEFORE YOU LEAVE!

---

CCJs are different, but beatable:

HAVE YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT A CCJ (JUDGMENT FOR CLAIMANT) AND NEED IT SET ASIDE?

PAYING IT DOES NOT WIPE THE CCJ UNLESS JUDGMENT WAS LESS THEN 30 DAYS BEFORE. DO NOT PAY UNLESS YOU ARE SURE YOU'RE WITHIN 30 DAYS.

A Defendant may apply to ‘set judgment aside’ by completing form ‘N244 – Application notice’ with a Witness Statement (NOT ABOUT YOUR DEFENCE OR THE PCN). About not receiving the Claim.

DO NOT ring the parking firm up...and do not just pay! If you pay you will damage your credit rating for SIX YEARS which multiplies the cost of car insurance and stops you opening bank accounts, renting or getting a loan.

If they used an old address then miraculously found you after CCJ, send THIS written by @troublemaker22
(a solicitor poster):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80636476/#Comment_80636476

ONLY GIVE THEM A SHORT 2 WEEK DEADLINE AND DO NOT DELAY/WAIT LONGER. You must 'act promptly'.

If they refuse or fail to reply within 2 weeks, read this thread for what to send with your N244 that you email to:

Applications.CNBC@justice.gov.uk

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6134970/surprise-ccj-please-help/p1

...and read this guidance from Johnersh, a solicitor, suggesting you attach a separate 'chronology' sheet about when you moved house/heard about the CCJ from the first time::
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77715639/#Comment_77715639

And read this from henrik777 (and click on his username and read LOTS more, as he mainly posts about setting aside a CCJ):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76473858#Comment_76473858

A summary of your choices regarding a SET ASIDE:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71776504#Comment_71776504

Here is a case which shows what you have to do, in order to satisfy the points the Judge will be wanting to hear:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74864199#Comment_74864199

After emailing your N244 application and attachments bundle you must phone the CNBC to pay (unless they are in a low income and qualify for ‘help with fees’ - Google it).

There is a £303 fee up front BUT if you get a good Judge, you should get that fee ordered for the Claimant to pay you back, as well as your CCJ set aside.

A recent October 2023 completed thread, ending with the parking CCJ set aside, PCN cancelled/claim dismissed - and all their costs back - is by @Troublesum1 (that is a link).

Here's a 2023 'CCJ set aside' example where the Judge ordered for the Claimant (PPC) to pay the N244 application fee back and the whole claim was dismissed in a single 15 minute hearing:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6423700/suprise-ccj-civil-enforcement-ltd/p1

Also read the threads and CCJ witness statements by:

@Zbubuman

and

@icy_fox

= Two great (recent) examples with persuasive case law.

* It's a NO-BRAINER to get a CCJ set aside if you qualify for free court fees, and lost of people do! (low income):
https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-help-with-court-and-tribunal-fees

Coupon-mad

SECOND STAGE APPEAL - POPLA OR IAS



POPLA IS OFFERED BY BPA AOS FIRMS

DO NOT APPEAL SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING, NEITHER AT FIRST APPEAL STAGE NOR AT POPLA.

POPLA Appeals are submitted here:

http://www.popla.co.uk/

but don't feel you have to answer their questions, you should write a detailed appeal and attach it as a PDF along with photos (use the parking firm's own photo of the sign if the words are illegible and the £100 (or whatever) charge is not in LARGE letters.

To find a relevant POPLA appeal written recently, always search the forum well, choosing good keywords.

So if yours is an APCOA PCN at an Airport, search the forum for the words 'APCOA POPLA Airport' and you will find a good one like this, in seconds, that you can copy and adapt (these are deliberately long, to make a PPC give up):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71489034#Comment_71489034

And in the same vein, to find a UKPC POPLA appeal where no NTK was ever served to the keeper, a search finds this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71383972#Comment_71383972

And here is a perfect, illustrated appeal which won when arguing about BPA Grace Periods:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73797736#Comment_73797736

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7ltb9rcr6zy7kn/Appeal_stage2_POPLA_ECP_draft5.pdf?dl=0

THAT IS WHAT A WINNING POPLA APPEAL CAN LOOK LIKE, VERY LONG AND WITH IMAGES.

Another one, 26 pages long, with pictures - this won, Smart Parking gave up:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_W_UseWdI_d_9WWMUfVecx0uDUYOwKs/view


ParkingEye (make sure you search it as ONE word as shown) can be best handled by searching for the relevant place as a keyword, so 'ParkingEye POPLA Aire Street' or 'ParkingEye Tower Road POPLA' or 'ParkingEye POPLA Hospital' would be good choices of keywords to find very recent examples.

ALWAYS look at the wording of any PCN from ParkingEye to see if it is a 'POFA/keeper liability after 29 days' one or not. There are two versions - look on the BACK of your PCN!

As long as you have not said who was driving in the first appeal, if you are lucky enough to have one like the ''golden ticket'' (nothing about POFA 2012 on the back) type of PCN discussed here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5684787

This shows a ''Golden Ticket'' (our phrase only!) back page (note no paragraph about the POFA 2012):

http://i.imgur.com/ubQAZ8p.jpg

...then you *will* win your appeal using the template POPLA point about 'no keeper liability' from a PE non-POFA type PCN, followed by the template point about the appellant not being shown to be the individual liable.

Here is a POPLA appeal you can copy & adapt, ONLY if you have a ParkingEye 'Golden Ticket':

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74575725#Comment_74575725

This person (below) was not lucky enough to have the 'non-POFA' easily-winning version PE PCN but still won with this PE POPLA appeal so it is certainly possible and PE do not like the very long 'throw the kitchen sink at it' approach to POPLA appeals and often give up:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71563041#Comment_71563041

I have only shown a few links as examples of POPLA appeals because they change and evolve. Searching will find the most recent similar example; do not use one older than 2017. Do not look at old ones about 'no GPEOL' or no loss because that's not going to win.

Easier than it sounds because we now have a number of POPLA appeal points covering the essential areas for appeal. They are in 'near template' state, but will need to be checked first against the circumstances of your parking event.

These are long on detail and when put together form a formidable block of text, deliberately so to scare off some PPCs who cannot be bothered to contest (fairly common).

Signage (I deliberately go to town in this section, don't cut it down!):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71285691&postcount=2341

- The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287626&postcount=2342

Landowner Authority

No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287628&postcount=2343

No Keeper Liability (windscreen ticket, no follow on NtK)

Example for cases where the PPC issued only a windscreen PCN but did not follow it with a NTK:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287643&postcount=2345

Permit car parks (residential 'own space' appeals, or industrial/employer car parks where the car was permitted):

And two appeal points to use together (as well as some of the above, of course) for PERMIT car parks where you were loading/unloading or permitted to be there:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71339517&postcount=2361

You can copy them verbatim and put them together and show us, to check nothing is missed. Like these two posters did, one is v Civil Enforcement and one v ParkingEye:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5698328

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5538581

A ParkingEye appeal is 100% winnable with that style PCN as long as you do NOT shoot yourself in the foot first by saying who was driving.

Here are two POPLA appeals I wrote (specific to a ParkingEye car park/machine issue and PCN):

Duncan Nimock's case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lukk13xep4s6ckz/Appeal%20v%20ParkingEye%20-%20POPLA%20November%202016.docx?dl=0

marganne's case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzau2e68ddbniow/ParkingEye%20Aire%20St%20POPLA%20appeal.docx?dl=0


These then get saved as PDFs and uploaded to POPLA under OTHER (ONLY) - do not think you only have 2000 characters in some box on the POPLA wepage!

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process.html


****************************


AFTER SUBMITTING YOUR POPLA APPEAL:

If the PPC contests the POPLA appeal, they will put on the Portal (and maybe also send to you) their POPLA evidence pack. It is NOT from POPLA not the decision!

This is your chance to comment on the crappy evidence from the scumbags.

YOU REALLY MUST COMMENT, BUT KEEP IT VERY CONCISE TO FIT COMMENTS IN THE PORTAL.

How can I comment on the evidence sent to POPLA, they've written a lot and shown lots of pictures of signs?!

Look through the evidence and find things to rebut - such as the signage being unclear, illegible, sparse/nothing to show how close the car was to a sign.

Or the witness statement/contract being heavily redacted, out of date, not signed by the landowner, or even just that it shows no expiry date (POPLA seem to like that).

Your comments are to rebut the operator's case, blow by blow.

Do not re-write your appeal or call it 'an appeal' or POPLA will not read it.

Examples of evidence 'comments' here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69778312#Comment_69778312

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69835948#Comment_69835948


What will likely happen in the end, re my POPLA appeal?

Read the 'POPLA Decisions' sticky thread now; read it from the LAST post backwards, for recent wins. POPLA and the importance of rebutting the evidence in a final email to POPLA, is discussed here in the second half of this post:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/68548048#Comment_68548048

Do you have to pay of you lose at POPLA? No!!



******************************************************************************



The 'IAS' offered by IPC companies is considered far worse than POPLA.

It is named and shamed on forum posts regularly as a 'kangaroo court' because even a strong appeal loses in almost every case. The IAS favours the parking firms and expects a mountain of evidence from the appellant. Do not use mitigating circumstances.

HO87 explains the problems with the IAS anonymous and apparently unaccountable appeals system here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67067144#Comment_67067144

and this is typical thread where we've discussed the issue; all agree it appears to be a 'kangaroo court':

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5149137

Here I explain my reasons why I don't recommend trying the appeal at IAS stage, except in very rare cases where you have a slam-dunk winning point:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/68548048#Comment_68548048

However, if it's a lease/hire car and a NTK went to the hire firm first, you CAN potentially win at IAS by cribbing from this IAS win wording:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67815901#Comment_67815901

DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT PAY £15 FOR THE 'BINDING' IAS VERSION!

Please don't start a thread asking if you should appeal to the IAS unless you have very rare circumstances that might make yours worth a try.

The answer is NO, do not try IAS at all.


As always, DO NOT OVERLOOK THE POWER OF A COMPLAINT TO RETAILER/LANDOWNER ABOUT THESE SCUM FIRMS:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4766249

SO GET COMPLAINING, EVEN IF THE PCN WAS FROM MONTHS BEFORE.


What will happen if I lose at POPLA or IAS?

It changes nothing, just takes you back to square one. It is not a reason to pay, even though the decision will tell you to! Discussed here and in other threads you can find by searching this forum for 'lost IAS' or 'lost POPLA':

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5334100

What happens would be:

- you will most likely (unless it's a very litigious PPC) just get a series of hysterical 'pay up or else' debt collector letters, or maybe letters from the PPC themselves - see separate post about ignoring them, below. No need to panic.

or

- you might have to defend this if the PPC tries a small claim, and they might be buoyed by an IAS 'win' under their belt to brandish. If that happens, see post #2 above about beating a claim!



What will happen if I do not bother with the IAS stage?

Same as the advice for those who lose. Don't pay.

Ignore debt collector letters as per post #4 of this advice thread - except to tell them in writing (keep proof of posting/emailing) if you move house, to make sure you never miss court papers a couple of years later.

Come back and read post #2 if you get a small claim, which defendants coached here win 99% of the time.

Coupon-mad

'IGNORE THE DEBT COLLECTORS' STAGE

DO NOT PANIC!


CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US!!!

DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR TEDIUM, PLEASE, JUST SEARCH AND READ WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.


READ THIS CLICKY LINK (YES THE BLUE BIT, CLICK ON IT!) AND DO NOT, PLEASE DON'T, START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT RECOVERY PLUS, CST, TRACE DRBT RECOVERY, DCB LTD OR ZZPS LETTERS DEMANDING £170, LIKE THIS:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80744377/#Comment_80744377

Debt Collector letters or threats of court like that one shown in the link? Thinking you may be too late to appeal?

THESE ARE NOT BAILIFFS, THEY CANNOT SEND THE BOYS ROUND! THIS IS JUST A LETTER-CHAIN YOU GET IF YOU HAVE NOT APPEALED.
See this linked explanatory video which will help you to see it for what it is and say 'big deal' about the letters:
LINK: Is a debt collector the same as a bailiff? - StepChange...


All the blue wording below includes a link for you to click about the stupid debt collectors so click on the name:

If you have letters from any debt collector such as Debt Recovery Plus or Zenith and are on the face of it, too late to 'appeal', then ignore them.

Certainly NEVER ring them!

Changed address? - that's different

THE ONLY TIME TO DEFINITELY CONTACT THEM (NOT BY PHONE...) IS IF THEY'VE TRACED YOU TO A NEW ADDRESS. THAT MEANS THEY HOLD TWO POSSIBLE ADDRESSES NOW AND THAT'S NOT OK.

Email the data protection officers (on their website data privacy page) of both the parking firm and the debt crawler and tell them to ERASE THE OLD ADDRESS & only use the new one. Confirm the full new address in your email and use that word 'erase'.

Do exactly the same every time you move house within 6 years of the PCN.

Never leave a PPC or DRA with a choice of two addresses to send a claim to.

THAT'S ALL. OTHERWISE, IGNORE

KEEP ALL THE LETTERS IN CASE THE PPC EVER TRY A SMALL CLAIM.


Getting it cancelled by the landowner:

Always always try a landowner complaint. See 'PLAN A in the first post above. Retailers, supermarkets, restaurants, pubs, hotels and retail parks can ALWAYS cancel your PCN for you. Complain to the CEO of the chain if the local manager says they won't help.


What happens in the end if the landowner won't/can't cancel the PCN?

See the second post of this thread. If you get a 'Letter of/before Claim' then that's the time to respond.

We win cases. No risk, no CCJ.

Coupon-mad

COMPLAINTS (AND COMMON ACRONYMS EXPLAINED):


Always complain to the landowner/retailer very quickly and assertively:


Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4766249 Look how easy it can be to get these cancelled by a retailer/hotel/landowner!

Most fake PCNs can be cancelled if it is a retailer car park, simply by COMPLAINING! If you go for the complaint assertively and quickly you won't even have to bother with any of the above appeals/POPLA stuff!

Look at the linked thread above - I have given typical contact emails in post #3 - for stores, and tips about who to moan at if it's not a shop on site. Also there's a template 'rant' of a complaint letter to give you the flavour of how angry a customer is entitled to be about this utter harassment, particularly if your only error was taking too long shopping!

Retail Park with lots of stores? Google it and find the management or landowner contact details.


****************************************************************************************

Complaining about an AOS member (BPA or IPC member, anywhere in the UK):

Contact details for complaints to the BPA or IPC (as applicable to your PPC) and the DVLA below.

These are useful resources to influence getting parking charges cancelled, such as when an AOS member has not followed POFA 2012 but is still alleging the keeper is 'liable' or if their signage is missing or if they refuse to give you a POPLA/IAS code, or have clearly breached their applicable Code of Practice:


DVLA:
Complain every time to the DVLA if your PPC are faffing around not sending you a POPLA or IAS code even if you appealed in time, or have breached the Code of Practice.

Point out that any breach of the Code of Practice the PPC is signed up to, breaches the KADOE contract to get DVLA data. State that the matter has been escalated to the CCR team because you have no confidence in the data release team to take such a complaint seriously as it's in the public domain that they have dismissed these issues far too many times recently without so much as even supplying a copy of the DVLA complaints procedure leaflet. State that if your complaint is not resolved properly your intention would be to involve your MP and refer the issue to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/65678397#Comment_65678397


emails to copy in, for the DVLA Customer Complaint Resolution Team:

CCRT@dvla.gov.uk
KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk
complaintsTeam@dvla.gov.uk



BPA:

either use their 'complain about an operator' report page or write with evidence and PCN number:

Steve Clark
Head of Operational Services
British Parking Association
Stuart House
41-43 Perrymount Road
Haywards Heath
West Sussex
RH16 3BN




IPC

The IPC website has the following restrictive words about complaints so you can see how difficult they are to engage with:

Compliance Monitoring
The IPC can only review complaints against operators subject to the following limitations:
Complaints must:
- Relate to a specific incident between the person complaining and the Operator,
- Identify a material, sanctionable breach of the IPC Code of Practice by the operator...


*************************************************************************


Some forum acronyms explained (REMEMBER THAT SOME OF THESE WILL NOT MEAN ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM)


AOS = Approved Operator Scheme of an Accredited Trade Association such as the BPA (or the new one, the IPC).

AoS = Acknowledgement of Service (of a claim form). See the second post for the link showing how to acknowledge a claim.

ATA = Accredited Trade Association (like the BPA or IPC, that means AOS members can get your DVLA data).

BPA = British Parking Association, merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain).

DPO = Data Protection Officer. Send a SAR to the 'DPO' for all data - check their Privacy page.

IAS = a 2nd stage 'SO CALLED independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales for IPC AOS members only. Pointless.

IPC = International Parking Community - merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side).

LBCCC/LBC/LBA = Letter Before County Court Claim/Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action.

MCOL = Money Claim Online - Google it!

NTH = Notice To Hirer (if you are the hirer/lessee, e.g. hired or company cars). Easy to win!

NTK = Notice to Keeper which should be the first letter sent to the registered keeper. See below for how to appeal if in England/Wales.

POC = Particulars of Claim (the short paragraph on the left middle of a claim form, with very sparse facts).

PPC = our forum shorthand only, for 'private parking company'.

POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (specifically Schedule 4 as linked below). England/Wales ONLY.

POPLA = Parking on Private Land Appeals - a 2nd stage 'independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales and for BPA AOS members only.

SAR = Subject Access Request, under the GDPR (data protection law), as discussed here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5849784/june-2018-start-of-the-new-ppc-and-dvla-fightback-gdpr-related

WS = Witness Statement. See post #2. If you have a claim, you must file a Witness Statement (and your evidence and exhibits) before the hearing, as well as the initial defence statement.

Crabman

This thread is for general information only.

Please do not post questions about your parking tickets in this thread.

For personalised help and guidance from our wonderful forum regulars (for free ) please start your own thread by clicking on this link:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/post/discussion/parking-tickets-fines-parking

Ralph-y

hi, and welcome to the forum ........

there will be plenty for you to read up on ...

but first you need to start your own thread / discussion
 as this is an information thread

go to the newbies thread / discussion

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1
make sure you start at the first page not last


first and have a general read up

then visit the start page

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163&order=desc

where you will find the 'new discussion button  '

Oh ... and using a phone to browse the site can cause problems.. so please try a laptop/PC





HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

Use the 'red' search button at the top of this page (and most other pages)   Put your key word(s) in.
Using advanced will give more options. Do not  read any threads more than a year or so old as they may well have outdated info.




NEWBIES - HOW TO UPLOAD LINKS TO PHOTOS/SCANS TO MSE

To upload a photo/scan link, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (like Dropbox, Imurg or Tinypic), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload links to photos/scans until they've a few posts under their belt.


Ralph

ngood77

3rd link in first post not working.  How do I post in the forum

Fruitcake

ngood77 said:

3rd link in first post not working.  How do I post in the forum

The third link in the first post works for me and takes me to the correct MSE page.

At the top or bottom of this page that you are on now, you will see a link that looks like this.



Click on it and it will take you to the main parking forum "front page".

To start a new thread, click on the new thread button. Depending on your device settings, it should either look like this,



or this,



Remember, do not reveal anything personal in your thread, and especially do not reveal the driver's identity.

Make sure you have thoroughly read the relevant parts of the NEWBIES first, and give us as much information as possible.