Shih Tzu puppy now walking fine

suki1964

hollydays said:

I read this thread , and thought it was a troll post. Surely no -one could be so unevolved . The attitudes from the OP, and their family, are callous and lacking in insite . Then I realised they'd got over 1000 posts. Please let this poor creature have an X-ray . There are charities who would take this unfortunate animal rather than put it to sleep. What kind of lessons are you teaching this 5 year old about respect for life.

Post count means nothing, its the quality of the posts. its always worth having a look at a posters history if you ever think something is not adding up

yellowbear

Who will train your 5 year old's pup?  
Who will clear up after your 5 year old's pup?
Who will walk your 5 year old's pup? 
Who will buy the food for your 5 year old's pup?
Who will pay the vet bill bills for vaccinations so your 5 year old's pup can be walked?
Why couldn't your 5 year old be happy with the dog she already has?

thorsoak

Let me tell you about the costs of raising a labrador litter of 12 - by a good breeder.   First of all, you ensure that you purchase a puppy with a good pedigree and background - and most importantly, a good nature.    Before you buy, you have to be honest with the breeder and tell him/her that you are looking for a !!!!!! that will be suitable for breeding - and most importantly - that the breeder does not register her as "progeny not for breeding".    Then you have your little girl, you have to ensure that she is not over-exercised, but is well socialised.    She has to have all her vaccinations and wormings, and records kept scrupulously of this - not a packet of Bob Martins as and when you think of it. If you have a breed like a labrador, you have to have her hips and elbows screened, to ensure that she is free from hip displasia, and inherited eye problems.   Costs:  around £300.  By the time she is 18 months, she should have had one season, and you can be looking for a suitable stud for her.  And that doesn't mean Bob down the road - or Buster who is owned by that chap on facebook.   You look for a stud who will complement your girl, who has a good temperament as well - the breeder of your girl should be able to advise you.   He may not live nearby - when we've had litters, on one occasion we travelled from Essex up to York and on another occasion from Essex down to Weston-super-Mare.   You leave your girl there for a couple of days - and obviously you won't know exactly when the optimum time will be - so it could necessitate a day off work.  Some stud owners will charge a fee for boarding your girl, others wont.   You will already have agreed a fee - and not necessarily a puppy - most stud owners will prefer a fee of 50% at the time of the studding, and 50% when the puppies are registered.     Now the fun begins - after one month, you can have her scanned to see how many puppies she is carrying - another expense.    Of course she has to have good food, you have to start worming her at around 40 days of the pregnancy, at present the recommendations are to start d-worming at round day 40 until 2 days after the birth of the puppies, and the puppies are dewormed at 2, 5, 8 and 12 weeks of age and then monthly until they are 6 months old, with mum being treated at the same time.   Dewormers can be costly - I remember having to pay £50 for the recommended wormer before, and then another £50 for more wormers after the puppies were born.   You need a decent bed for mum and puppies - a proper whelping box will cost upwards of £200, although you can get one made for around £100.  Of course, some mums cannot manage the birth on their own - and as you know, they then need a ceasarian which can set you back £1000s - so there goes some of your "profit". Once the puppies are born, good breeders do not leave them alone for the first week of their lives - some puppies need to be put onto the teats for feeds regularly, some mums are clumsy and can lie on their puppies and crush them.   This is why we always ensured that we had someone on puppy watch 24/7 for the first week or so - meaning taking holiday to look after them.   When you start weaning, you have to use good quality food - and you also need loads of disinfectant and cleaning materials - puppies are mucky little things and the more puppies you have, the more mess there is to clean up.   You will also need to take them for vet checks, and now, as has been stated previously, all puppies have to be microchipped before leaving the breeder, and registered to the breeder in the first place.    You also have to find the homes for your puppies - and having put so much work into your litter, you want to make sure that they go to the best homes, so you don't advertise them on gumtree or facebook - but in reality, if you successfully breed a litter of 9 - an average litter for a labrador - you might make £1,500 - and of course, this has to be declared to the taxman who will take his 20%c cut!   For all the hard work, it is not easy money.  And of course - the costs are the same whether you have one puppy or 9- and there is always the heartache of losing your much loved girl during birth.  Its not as easy as your friend thinks.

Savvy_Sue

thorsoak said:

If you ever  think of doing this again, please research first - and buy a puppy from a reputable breeder who will guide you through all the pratfalls and pitfalls of breeding puppies - and make sure that you have a genuine reason for breeding in the first place.

or get a rescue dog. Again, thoroughly researched. 

Savvy_Sue

renegadefm said:

suki1964 said:

I don't know any breeders who are making a good living from it, they cover costs

My partners friend who has a labrador just had 12 puppies and they are £700 and above each. Tell me shes not making money. That's over 8 grand in her !!!!!! pocket I'd imagine. 

:rotfl: Well, thorsoak has set out clearly what costs your friend will have incurred, but clearly you are already forgetting the 'ridiculous' fees charged by vets, who must no doubt also be making a mint. 

renegadefm

suki1964 said:

It boils my pee when people who have a b!tch refuse to spay it because they want her to have a litter

Why? Why allow a b1tch to have a litter when you have no intention of keeping the pups? The only reason I can see is they see the pound signs, simple as. In my day, when you had a b!tch that you couldn't afford to have spayed or she got caught before you could, you put an ad in the vets or a shop window offering the pups to good homes, thats where most of us got our first pups, or from Battersea, It was only those who were wanting to show their dogs who had the money for pedigrees, and finding a breeder and having to go on the waiting list

When I got my last boy, I spent 6 weeks on the phone to breed club secretaries and breeders before I was accepted by one, and then I only got on the reserve list, being lucky to get my pup as someone dropping out and me having previous experience of the breed. I never even got to choose, the breeder interviewed perspective owners and matched the pup to the owner

The internet has a lot to answer for. Too easy for someone to see how much a pup can be worth and think oh look, Ive a b1tch - kerchang !!!

But like I said already loads of times, the original plan or idea behind it was so daughter had a free puppy basically. Any extra would have been a bonus I admit that. Not forgetting the owners of the stud dog had first pick of the litter.  But the mum only had 2 puppies, so nature decided it was never going to be a money making thing because another family member wanted the other one badly who has mental health issues, and that person was advised to have a pet to help that,  so it ended up we let them have the other puppy. So we sold it half the price a normal Shih Tzu sells for. But thar hasent covered what we have payed out so far. So we are at a loss so far. 

renegadefm

suki1964 said:

hollydays said:

I read this thread , and thought it was a troll post. Surely no -one could be so unevolved . The attitudes from the OP, and their family, are callous and lacking in insite . Then I realised they'd got over 1000 posts. Please let this poor creature have an X-ray . There are charities who would take this unfortunate animal rather than put it to sleep. What kind of lessons are you teaching this 5 year old about respect for life.

Post count means nothing, its the quality of the posts. its always worth having a look at a posters history if you ever think something is not adding up

The x-ray is booked in for today at midday. Its the vets that said worse case sinario if the puppy has a deformation of some kind it might not have a quality of life. For example might not be able to walk so would need to be put to sleep. Not a decision to be taken lightly. I was merely stating facts. These things happen everyday, its nothing to do with attitude from us. Nature decides what lives and what doesn't. 

elsien

Nature often gets a helping hand from responsible breeders by ensuring health tests are carried out, and by carefully matching the stud and the !!!!!!. 

Pollycat

renegadefm said:

But like I said already loads of times, the original plan or idea behind it was so daughter had a free puppy basically. Any extra would have been a bonus I admit that. Not forgetting the owners of the stud dog had first pick of the litter.  But the mum only had 2 puppies, so nature decided it was never going to be a money making thing because another family member wanted the other one badly who has mental health issues, and that person was advised to have a pet to help that,  so it ended up we let them have the other puppy. So we sold it half the price a normal Shih Tzu sells for. But thar hasent covered what we have payed out so far. So we are at a loss so far. 

Why does a 4 or 5 year old need a puppy when you already have a dog of the same breed?

Dogs are not toys.

renegadefm said:

The x-ray is booked in for today at midday. Its the vets that said worse case sinario if the puppy has a deformation of some kind it might not have a quality of life. For example might not be able to walk so would need to be put to sleep. Not a decision to be taken lightly. I was merely stating facts. These things happen everyday, its nothing to do with attitude from us. Nature decides what lives and what doesn't. 

But don't you think it's a good idea to give nature a helping hand and ensure you have a healthy b i t c h to breed with a healthy dog?

That ensures the next generation has a better chance of being healthy.

It's your attitude to breeding that is the problem.

Undervalued

renegadefm said:

suki1964 said:

hollydays said:

I read this thread , and thought it was a troll post. Surely no -one could be so unevolved . The attitudes from the OP, and their family, are callous and lacking in insite . Then I realised they'd got over 1000 posts. Please let this poor creature have an X-ray . There are charities who would take this unfortunate animal rather than put it to sleep. What kind of lessons are you teaching this 5 year old about respect for life.

Post count means nothing, its the quality of the posts. its always worth having a look at a posters history if you ever think something is not adding up

The x-ray is booked in for today at midday. Its the vets that said worse case sinario if the puppy has a deformation of some kind it might not have a quality of life. For example might not be able to walk so would need to be put to sleep. Not a decision to be taken lightly. I was merely stating facts. These things happen everyday, its nothing to do with attitude from us. Nature decides what lives and what doesn't. 

That is not entirely true with pets.

Very high end veterinary treatment is available at specialist practices and teaching hospitals which may sometimes be able to restore a very sick animal to a decent quality of life. However it comes at a very significant cost. 

Equally, legally a pet is property and you are quite entitled to limit your expenditure to the cost of having it put down. 

The choice is yours.