Shih Tzu puppy now walking fine

thorsoak

renegadefm said:

Incidentally how much is breeders insurance? Not that I need it. Just curious.
I guess wondering would it have been within our reach. 

Breeder's insurance is, to be brutal, out of the question for respoonsible breeders - it can be as much as £5,000, depending upon the breed of the dog.   Insurance companies exist to make a profit - and they put as many exclusion clauses upon such a policy that I have never known any breeder who has gone to that expense being able to be recompensed - and as I used to show my dogs - and have bred 10 litters in my lifetime (over 50 years with dogs) I do know a lot of breeders.   Please show this thread to your partner - and if she really wants to do this for the right reason - and having a puppy for a family member is a "right" reason - then make sure that she goes along the right lines - she will probably pay less for a well-bred puppy by a recognised breeder than she will from someone off gumtree or facebook.   There is a website which is extremely knowledgeable and a good place to start - www.champdogs.co.uk if she wants good reliable information.

Kim_kim

renegadefm said:

QuackQuackOops said:

I wish they would make it illegal for anyone other than registered breeders to breed dogs.

Why would they make it illegal to unregistered breeders? Its their animals, they should be able to breed them without it costing a fortune to make someone else rich. Its bad enough the vets costing a fortune for basic stuff.
The worming stuff was a tenner, when the vet quoted a couple quid. But on the day it lept up to a tenner. Its as if they charge what they like. The shot of whatever they had to give the mother to get the contractions going again was £116. I'm thinking is this stuff made out of liquid gold. And how can you justify £800 for a c section? Luckily we didnt need one. But faced with that expence it's enough to just put the animals to sleep and knock it on the head. If I knew having pets would cost an arm and a leg I wouldn't have them personally. But my partner has always had dogs and various pets.  Where she lived before had a PDSA where vets bills were next to non, but Cornwall doesnt have one.
https://www.pdsa.org.uk/

I think the PDSA is there to provide medical treatment for the animals of people on benefits.
Not so people can breed dogs on the cheap.  

Kim_kim

renegadefm said:

suki1964 said:

You really don't have a clue do you?

Do you realise how much health care would cost YOU, if we didn't have the NHS? £800 a C -Section sounds about right for a vet you do know you pay for every stitch, every swab used?

No one should be breeding for sale unless they are registered. As you have just found out, its not an easy route to a pot of gold, you now have a b1tch who's probably going to struggle to whelp naturally if she ever gets caught again, and you have a sickly pup who's worthless and is going to cost you an arm and a leg, because believe me, the owner of the "stud" is not going to want to take it, which means they will charge you for servicing and you are the one with the vet bills

So the Stud was neither health checked nor proven? Just some random strangers dog

Oh, I spent over £1k in 2019 on vet bills for my rescue cat who developed herpes, I think the final bill was £1200, and guess what? We paid another £300 this year having blood tests done and having to have him put to sleep

You do not have animals if you can't afford them or the insurance policy needed. You have posted on these forums many times how you are struggling to meet your bills and keep food on the table. Deciding to allow your b!tch you have pups was not only stupid but in my mind near on criminal

I already explained why we did it, so that daughter could have a puppy rather than buy one. It wasent a money making venture. 

So why are you selling one? 

Why don’t you give the spare one to your daughter? 

es5595

renegadefm said:

My partners friend who has a labrador just had 12 puppies and they are £700 and above each. Tell me shes not making money. That's over 8 grand in her !!!!!! pocket I'd imagine. 

And this wasn’t the reason you bred your poor pup right, it was just “to make our not-yet-five-year-old” happy?!
Sadly people think breeding dogs and cats is easy money, and you’re now finding the hard way that it is neither easy, nor ethical. 

hollydays

I read this thread , and thought it was a troll post. Surely no -one could be so unevolved . The attitudes from the OP, and their family, are callous and lacking in insite . Then I realised they'd got over 1000 posts. Please let this poor creature have an X-ray . There are charities who would take this unfortunate animal rather than put it to sleep. What kind of lessons are you teaching this 5 year old about respect for life.

Aylesbury_Duck

renegadefm said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

renegadefm said:

Since when has breeding become frowned apon anyway? Without animals vets wouldn't have a job. I dont get why I got to feel guilty, especially as I wasent really behind the venture.
People have bred their dogs and cats etc for centuries with no insurance. Dad said pet insurance didnt exist in his day. And he had a farm. You just had to pay the vet whatever it cost and that was that. But he said farm animals if they were lame or ill would be slaughtered. Very often a vet wouldn't come into it. So I guess times have changed. I dont know. 

It's not that breeding is frowned upon it's the completely irresponsible way you've gone about it in a ham-fisted attempt to save money.  I'm not even sure why you were contemplating adding another dog to your family when money is so tight.  

I'm wondering that myself now. But how many more times do I have to mention this wasent my venture. It was never my idea. Does anyone read what I post? I'm fed up with getting the blame for this. I merely came on here wondering if it might be nothing wrong with it. It might be normal just to be a bit behind. 

You are jointly responsible because as a family you have made these decisions to save and/or make money - totally the wrong motivation for doing so.  Stop trying to pass the blame onto others and take some responsibility, for goodness sake.  You sound like a 12 year old trying to get out of trouble by grassing on your mates.

Even if the puppy turns out to be healthy, I suggest you speak to an animal charity about having it re-homed.  You are clearly not in a position, knowledgeably or financially, to take on responsibility for a dog for many years if you're trying to shirk responsibility just five weeks in.  Wait until your daughter is old enough to understand what a big responsibility a pet is, although I'm not convinced she's going to learn that at home.

suki1964

renegadefm said:

suki1964 said:

As for breeding on the whim of a five year old child, well words fail me

How is that so shocking, it seemed to make sense at the time, rather than purchase a puppy from another mother we don't know. I say at the time because this has been a learning curve from start to finish, except its not over yet is it? 

But this is the learning you should have been doing long before you thought about having a pup = NOT AFTER THE EVENT

sheramber

You are required by law to microchip the pups and record them on the database by the time they are 8 weeks old. So  that is more expense you will have. 

                 

 

Microchipping dogs

It's now a legal requirement to have any dog over the age of eight weeks microchipped in England and Wales.

 

Whose responsibility is it to microchip a puppy?

All dog breeders are responsible for ensuring puppies are microchipped before selling them. Puppies cannot be sold until they are eight-weeks-old and must be microchipped at the point of sale.

...............

Breeders must also register their details on the database to be recorded against the microchip for the life of the dog. A person is considered to be a 'breeder' if they are the owner of a dog which gives birth, whether or not they carry on a business as a breeder of dogs.

sheramber

renegadefm said:

suki1964 said:

I don't know any breeders who are making a good living from it, they cover costs

My partners friend who has a labrador just had 12 puppies and they are £700 and above each. Tell me shes not making money. That's over 8 grand in her !!!!!! pocket I'd imagine. 

It is unusual for 12 pups to be to   survive. A !!!!!! will not be able to feed 12 adequately  so your friend will have   to buy   special food for the pups and feed them every few hours.
She may yet incur vet bills as you have done.
If this friend is a responsible breeder she will have paid for specific medical tests to ensure her !!!!!! is healthy and less likely to pass on inherited conditions that the breed is susceptible to. These tests are not cheap.
She /he will have fed the !!!!!! a high quality diet to ensure the pups  were born strong and healthy.
She will have paid a sum of money to the stud dog owner fo the use of the dog. This is normally the value of a pup.
She will have  researched the stud dogs background  and seen the  results of the tests done.
She will have to pay for microchipping all the pups by the time they are 8 weeks old and take  responsibility for the pups for the rest of  their lives, meaning if an owner is no longer able to continue to look after the dog she will take it back.
 All that costs time and money.
 But, if they did as your partner did and reply to someone on an internet forum to use some unknown dog at stud then she may  also end up regretting her decision,  

suki1964

It boils my pee when people who have a b!tch refuse to spay it because they want her to have a litter

Why? Why allow a b1tch to have a litter when you have no intention of keeping the pups? The only reason I can see is they see the pound signs, simple as. In my day, when you had a b!tch that you couldn't afford to have spayed or she got caught before you could, you put an ad in the vets or a shop window offering the pups to good homes, thats where most of us got our first pups, or from Battersea, It was only those who were wanting to show their dogs who had the money for pedigrees, and finding a breeder and having to go on the waiting list

When I got my last boy, I spent 6 weeks on the phone to breed club secretaries and breeders before I was accepted by one, and then I only got on the reserve list, being lucky to get my pup as someone dropping out and me having previous experience of the breed. I never even got to choose, the breeder interviewed perspective owners and matched the pup to the owner

The internet has a lot to answer for. Too easy for someone to see how much a pup can be worth and think oh look, Ive a b1tch - kerchang !!!