Double dip!

gipsygirl

Sorry to be pain & the long post but I am looking for assurance that I am dong the right thing as this has been going on for months now!-I have been reading the many newbie threads on here since I got my parking invoice on last November but must admit there is so much to take in I find it a bit confusing!

Basically the story is that I dropped some friends off at the NR2 hotel in Norwich last year where they were staying the night & collected them the following morning, I was then sent a letter from National parking enforcement (with photos of my car) a week later saying I had parked there all night! I understand this is called double dipping? I asked them to check their cameras as they were obviously wrong & had missed me leaving & entering the car park within moments each time. I only stopped for a few seconds & didn't even turn the engine off let alone park! I contacted the hotel but no reply at all from them ( not surprised as it doesn't have good reputation to say the least).I also wrote to my MP about this but didn't get a reply from him which I thought was pretty bad, he wont be getting my vote anyway!



I sent the template letter recommend on this website (not admit g liability or naming the driver) to National parking Enforcement LTD with the details & explained my circumstance but got a letter back basically telling me they had reviewed my case but their records showed that the photographic evidence showed no other entries to the car park & so the notice was correctly issued. What a scam!
Since then I have ignored all other debt collector letters ( DRP & Zenith usually one or two month I have kept them all) & now have one from Gladstones solicitors offering me the chance to pay before going to court ( “Our clients would like to provide you with this opportunity to contact their agent to make full payment of the sum ££ thereby avoiding the consideration of any future court action & any increase in the amount claimed” ) I think just another debt collectors letter but I want to make sure hence this post?


I obviously have two witnesses who can confirm this. ironically the whole point of leaving their car with us was because of the hotels extortionate car parking charges! Any other time they would have stayed with us but were not able to on this occasion. My husband was also witness but not sure I can count him? I don't have any other proof as such ( no dash cam google tracking etc) but I have the whole text conversation arranging this with our friends including the one saying they were ready to be collected a few minutes before the time they say I left the car park.


We are going on holiday for a couple of weeks next month & I’m a bit concerned that if I do get a letter about going to court & it arrives while I’m away I won’t have much time to plan things so want to make sure I have things in order just in case.

I want to know if I ignore this Gladstones letter (I think so from what I have read) the number does not start with a letter 1 but a 5 (not the 3 mentioned).

I’m pretty cheesed off about all this harassment & would love to sue them back if they take me to court as they are blatant lies! Thanks for any advice!

The_Deep

They are obviously trying to scam you so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

I dropped some friends off at the NR2 hotel in Norwich last year where they were staying the night & collected them the following morning,

1. Complain to the Hotel Manager and if it's a national chain, escalate it.
Give them 14 days to get the scam cancelled or you will add them as a Defendant to a counter claim for this scam.

Do the above now, whether or not you complained at the time, and be persistent. Not ''Please can you help? oh alright then, sorry, I'll deal with NPE...'' NO.

2. Meanwhile send a SAR* to NPE telling their Data Protection Officer that this was a double visit, falling within the well known ANPR camera flaws which has missed at least one in/out image in the middle, and made it appear the car stayed overnight when it did not. As such, you require the DPO to make a thorough investigation by scrutinising all images from that day between the first in/last out times and provide ALL images captured of the car, whether the full VRN is shown or not. And given they will find their images prove they have no right to process your data at all, you then require them to show you the images and all data held about you, all photos/all letters AND to confirm that your data will be erased as is your right under the GDPR, within 21 days of the final response.

I want to know if I ignore this Gladstones letter (I think so from what I have read) the number does not start with a letter 1 but a 5 (not the 3 mentioned).

If it only gives 14 days to reply and says their client or payee is Debt Recovery plus, then ignore it.

If not, and it gives 30 days and talks about the pre-action protocol & reply forms then also take a third step:

3. Reply to Gs and say the above (from 1 and 2) and tell them to do one!




*by email to the address on their privacy page (see NEWBIES thread about a SAR).

gipsygirl

Thank you for that guys, very helpful.


I did write to my M.P but got no reply, so not much faith in him!


The Gladstones letter does give me 14 days to pay DRP so I ignore it then?


I have just written these letters/emails & want to check that they are they OK before I send them off? ( pretty much copied from MSE!)


Many thanks!



LETTER TO HOTEL



Dear sir/ Madam


Ref no NPE XXX


I wrote to you several months ago asking you to cancel this parking charge as the car was simply dropping off guests at your hotel & collecting them again the next morning & did NOT park overnight as alleged by National parking Enforcement. I have had no reply to this request.
I have been harassed by debt collectors letters ever since & the charge is now £££.
I am now giving you 14 days to get this ridiculous claim cancelled or I will add you as a defendant to a counter claim that I intend to make against NPE for this scam.


Regards




LETTER TO SAR

Dear Sir or Madam,

Subject access request - Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR)

ADDRESS

Reference:XXXX
Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself:

1. ALL photos taken reference my case. (On furnishing these, please confirm in writing that the photos provided constitutes ALL photos held by yourselves reference my case).
2. ALL video footage taken reference my case. (On furnishing this, please confirm in writing that the video footage provided constitutes ALL video footage held by yourselves reference my case).
3. A close up of all of the signs, on the day in question.
4. Evidence that you have paid a debt collector.
5. Evidence that you have sought and received my personal information from the DVLA.
6. All letters and emails, sent and received, reference my case, including any appeal correspondence.
7. All data held reference the case and a full copy of the PCN (On furnishing this, please confirm in writing that it constitutes ALL data held by yourselves reference my case).
8. A list of all PCNs you consider are outstanding against me. (Please note that any claim must be for all PCNs in one claim, not several separate claims).
This was a double visit falling within the well known ANPR camera flaws which has missed at least one in/out image in the middle, and made it appear the car stayed overnight when it did not. As such, I require the DPO to make a thorough investigation by scrutinising all images from that day between the first in/last out times and provide ALL images captured of the car, whether the full VRN is shown or not. I require you to show me the images and all data held about me all photos/all letters AND to confirm that my data will be erased as is my right under the GDPR, within 21 days of the final response.

Please ensure that the information is sent to me by email to XXXX and by post to the aforementioned address.

If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. Please note that I should NOT have to provide intrusive and excessive identification such as a passport or driving licence to obtain this. That I have been sent a Parking Charge Notification and Gladstones solicitors letter to my address, demonstrates that you already hold sufficient data to identify me. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

Yours faithfully

Redx

seem ok to me


add an attachment of a scan or pic of your V5C to the SAR, otherwise they will come back asking for your DL or similar

Coupon-mad

Remove #3 and #4 which are not personal data.

Put this first, as the first para (sorry, there was a typo in it!):

This was a double visit falling within the well known ANPR camera [STRIKE]flaws[/STRIKE] flaw, which has missed at least one in/out image in the middle, and made it appear the car stayed overnight when it did not. As such, I require the DPO to make a thorough investigation by scrutinising all images from that day between the first in/last out times and provide ALL images captured of the car, whether the full VRN is shown or not. I require you to show me the images and all data held about me all photos/all letters AND to confirm that my data will be erased as is my right under the GDPR, within 21 days of the final response.

As for the complaint to the Hotel, that sounds rather stark and aggressive as a first contact in months.

Maybe this?:

LETTER TO HOTEL


Dear Sir/ Madam


Ref no NPE XXX

I wrote to you several months ago asking you to cancel this parking charge as the car was simply dropping off guests at your hotel & collecting them again the next morning & did NOT park overnight as alleged by National Parking Enforcement.

It cannot have escaped your notice, due to the complaints I am sure you have had, as well as mine, that your parking agent (a notorious ex-clamper firm, exposed in the local and national press numerous times for their practices) is using defective checks & balances before issuing a PCN, or quite possibly no human checks at all.

As a member of a Trade Body, NPE have a duty under various rules of law and are required to make sure PCNs are not issued in error where the camera system defaults to the 'first in/last out' images. A PCN must not be issued in these circumstances. This charge bears all the hallmarks of a scam.

I remind you that the Hotel remains vicariously liable for the conduct of your agents, who are continuing to process my data illegally (against the GDPR). For that, the Hotel is also jointly liable and I am struggling to understand why you failed to get the PCN cancelled when I first complained about this scam.

I have now been harassed by debt collectors letters ever since & the charge is now £££, and a court claim has been threatened.

I will be very distressed and disappointed if I have to defend a court claim and regretfully add your Hotel as a Defendant to my counter-claim for compensation for your agent's data misuse, and trust you will now end this harassment and confirm to me that the charge is cancelled.

As time is of the essence, with court being aggressively threatened by NPE for an event that did not happen, it is not unreasonable to expect an apology for the camera failing and data misuse (and confirmation that the charge is cancelled) from you/your contractor NPE, within seven days.

If this is beyond your remit, I require this formal complaint to be escalated to the highest Management to ensure that this occurs after a full investigation by NPE's Data Protection Officer. If not, I require the Hotel to inform me of your address for service of court papers and the name of your nominated recipient/representative, and of any dates in 2019 when that Director/Manager of your Hotel will be unavailable to attend court.

Yours faithfully,



your name
your postal address
your email address

Date sent: 8.5.19

(not 'regards' in a formal letter or email!)

Half_way

only got time t skim read, but where does this 14 days thing come from?
to pay? to pay what? the vehicle was not on site, you owe nothing, zero, zilch diddly squit


The Hotal may owe you for the inconvenience/harassment as their agents ( and by extension the hotel) have failed to place adequate checks in place to ensure the acuracy of their data

gipsygirl

Coupon -mad that’s much better thank you!
Am I right in thinking not to reply to Gladstones at the moment? (14 days to pay)
Thank you very much your help is much appreciated.

gipsygirl

Thanks Half way I have no intention of paying anything! The 14 days is how long Gladstones have given me to pay ( they can whistle for it!) I just needed to check I was doing this the right way!

Coupon-mad

You can ignore a Gladstones 14 day letter as it actually comes from Debt Recovery Plus.

gipsygirl

I’m not sure if I should start a new thread or just continue with this one...?


Anyway, I thought I had heard the last of this bunch of cowboys after sending the letters & emails that you kindly helped me with on here in May – particularly Coupon mad for helping with my letters & emails to them & the hotel.
Not a single word since from anyone, hotel, debt recovery, solicitors etc. Nothing at all! Before this I was getting threatening letters several time a month!! Then today I got another one from National Parking Enforcement threatening court if I do not pay £160 within 7 days!! (Not likely!)
I’m not sure what to do? It says not to contact them but only to send the money to Credit investigation services in Glasgow. Should I send them the same letter as before asking for all the relevant SAR information? (post #4 & #6)
I did ask them to contact me within 21 days back in May with all the required info & obviously they didn't!
I would really appreciate some help on what to do thank you!